PRODIGY(R) interactive personal service 07/14 1:29 AM Number of notes exported: 75 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Topic: ROBERT JORDAN ^^^^^^^^^^^^ =============== Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ALL Date: 05/21 From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 2:20 AM Just a thought, but when Rand finally does go to Tar Valon, and looks upon Dragonmount, will he see himself (Lews Therin) dying thousands of years in the past?Could this be another Lews "trying to take over point" in the story? - Ishamael. =============== Reply 1 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 05/23 From: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Time: 1:41 AM Who knows? ( besides Robert Jordan ) Maybe the stronger the flashback, the stronger the hold Lews Therin Telamon has over Rands personality. And seeing his own death would certainly be very strong. =============== Reply 2 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Date: 05/23 From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 10:22 PM I've also noticed that the more Rand channels, the more Lews tries to take over. If there is a Power war near Tar Valon, couldn't this place, above all else (except Shayol Ghul) be the place for Lews to finally take over? I think so. - Ishamael. =============== Reply 3 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 05/24 From: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Time: 2:07 AM It's possible. I think it would also depend on what he tries to channel, such as how much he tries to channel. But I'm not quite sure Lews is totally going to take over. Not because of anything in the story, I just don't think Rand al'Thor will disappear from the scene. I just can't wait to find out how R. Jordan will right it. =============== Reply 4 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: YGNK21A JAMES MOCK SR Date: 05/26 From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 11:07 PM I don't think Rand willdissappear either. Maybe there will be some points where Lews is stronger, but in the end Rand will be the main personality. Oh, just realized- what if, in the end after the DO is killed or driven off, Lews is still in Rand's mind? Would he just go on living, having a second person inside him? - Ishamael. =============== Reply 5 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 05/29 From: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Time: 6:37 PM I just thought - wouldn't Dragonmount be a good place for Rand to get Lews out of his mind? It could be that Lews' memories get stronger and stronger, and then finally, right before he takes over Rand, the memory of his death comes and banishes those Lews memories for good. =============== Reply 6 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Date: 05/29 From: YGNK21B JAMES MOCK Time: 7:01 PM Here is an idea. Lews will remain with Rand long enough to fight the Dark One. Then if Rand/Lews is still alive Rand al'Thor will be the dominant personality. =============== Reply 7 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Date: 05/29 From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 7:14 PM Either he'll (Lews) will somehow die out by seeing his own death, or he'll go crazy by remembering what he did even more. For that, I guess we will hear a lot of "Ilyena, forgive me!!" - Ishamael. =============== Reply 8 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 06/02 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 1:50 PM You're all wrong, there's no other personality trying to take over Rand. Ya, ya. right. Bar tender, one more round! I can quite, anytime. Denial, that's the way to go. Actually, it SAYS in several spots: "let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come..." "yet one shall be born to face the Shadow born once more as he was born before and shall be born gain, time without end." "And his paths shall be many, and who shall know his name, for he shall be born among us many times, inmany guises, as he has been and ever will be, time without end." Note the HE not THEY. If Rand was a composite entity, they would be a composite of different souls. Rand isn't. Rand is Lews. Rand is every Promised One of every Age of every Turning. There is one entity that is born again and again to fight the Dark One. As a matter of fact, in TSR, Egwene expresses the belief that everyone is reborn again in the next Age. I don't have the quote on hand, but I can post it if necessary. Moiraine =============== Reply 9 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/02 From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 11:40 PM Pardon me my friends but I'm going to go hang myself in my living room...DRAT! Why is it that I always miss one thing-the most important thing, of course. Okay, then. If Rand is the "One" in all places, all time, then if he went to another world through a Portal Stone he would not find another Rand there? I think it said something of "other exact dimensions" or something of the like with the >>> same people. Like the old Superman vs. bad Superman duel in an exact backward dimension. - Ishamael. =============== Reply 10 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/02 From: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Time: 11:41 PM By the way bartender, I think I'll definitely have another one. Zima, no ice please. - Ishamael. =============== Reply 11 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: YXXB37B CHRISTOPHER MARTY Date: 06/03 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 5:04 PM I think like the Amber series, the Mirrors of the Wheel are only pale immitations of the real world. And I think Verin said that if the Dark One was let out in one mirror he would be let out in all realities. We haven't discussed the various worlds/realities of (sarcastically) "Randland." Moiraine =============== Reply 12 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Time: 10:42 PM I wasn't excactly aurguing this point. In fact, you are probably right. I believe, however, that Rand is having a little trouble with his memories. Wouldn't you be rather surprised if you remembered things that you believed never happened to you. It doesn't really matter that it's Rand's memories, it only matters that Rand believes that it's impossible for him to remember them. Perhaps when Rand goes to Dragonmount he will become at peace with his memories after remembering his death. Of course, he might go mad, like I would (G). ---Adora Aybara =============== Reply 13 of Note 1 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: HCPX23C KYRA JUCOVY Date: 06/18 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 6:16 PM Yes, I agree, it's how he looks at his new memories. He views them as alien, thus they have been given the persona, Lews. Make sure to export the prophecies AND everything you find in "BEHOLD." You'll love it. Moiraine =============== Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ALL Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 11:53 AM For all those dimwits who haven't gotten around to subscribing to The Chronicles or haven't obtained their free copy, here is the compilation of all the Prophecies of WoT. Export it-or be banished from the Light forever! Moiraine History, Prophecy, Foretellings, Dreams, Viewings, information from predictive Ter'angreal, and Eelfinn wishes A complete compilation of predictive passages from EOW-FOH May 29, 1994 by Carolyn Fusinato with the help of Richard S. Millard's October, 92 compilation and the Internet's FAQ 1. Histories from the Fourth Age. 2. Prophecy. i. The Karaethon Cycle. a. portions of the Karaethon Cycle as recounted by various characters b. commentaries and translations from the Third Age on the Karaethon Cycle ii. prophecy pertaining to a certain people. a. The Jendai Prophecy. b. The Prophecy of Rhuidean iii. dark prophecy. a. Verin's interpretation of the dark prophecy iv. Prophecy of the Horn of Valere. 3. Foretellings. ii. Elaida's Foretellings. ii. Diendre's Foretellings. iii. Gitara Moroso's Foretellings. 4. Dreams. i. Egwene's dreams. ii. Perrin's dreams. iii. Wise One's dreams. iv. Morin's dreams v. Sorelle's dreams. vi. Rand's dreams. 5. Visions. i. Min's visions. ii. Aelfinn's visions a. Mat's questions and the Eelfinn's answers b. What we know of Rand's answers c. What we know of Moiraine's answers 6. Ter'angreal used by the Wise Ones in Rhuidean. i. Aviendha. ii. Moiraine. 7. Eelfinn. 1. Histories from the Fourth Age. I have nothing to add to Mr. Millard's analysis on why these must be included as prophetic fragments towards Rand's future. Certainly, as he said, it must be taken into consideration that the passing of time might perhaps distort the amount of credible information that they provide. This is actually covered in the series during a conversation on the distortion of history between Thom and Elayne (TSR, Chapter 20, p230-231) on the Wavedancer. Additionally, the fact has been reinforced in each book during the beginning paragraph of the first chapter. =============== Reply 1 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM 1.01 "And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. the oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the breaking of the world. And they named him Dragon." (from Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora, The Breaking of the World. Author unknown, the Fourth Age) 1.02 "And it came to pass in those days, as it had come before and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land and weighed down the hearts of men, and the green things failed, and hope died. And men cried out to the Creator, saying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time." (from Charal Drianaan te Calamon, The Cycle of the Dragon. Author unknown, the Fourth Age) [a portion of this ("And men cried out to the...the winds of time.) was also on p577, TGH, Chapter 50, After] 1.03 "And it was written that no hand but his should wield the Sword held in the Stone, but he did draw it out, like fire in his hand, and his glory did burn the world. Thus did it begin. Thus do we sing his Rebirth. Thus do we sing the beginning." (from Do'in Toldara te, Songs of the Last Age, Quarto Nine: The Legend of the Dragon Composed by Boanne, Songmistress at Taralan, the Fourth Age) 1.04 "And when the blood was sprinkled on ground where nothing could grow, the Children of the Dragon did spring up, the People of the Dragon, armed to dance with death. And he did call them forth from the wasted lands, and they did shake the world with battle." (from The Wheel of Time by Sulamein so Bhagad Chief Historian at the Court of the Sun, the Fourth Age.) 2. Prophecy. Much as Mr. Millard says, the prophecies of the Wheel of Time are often the most reliable and revealing sources of information given to us. The prophecy most central to the books, the Karaethon Cycle, is perhaps the best supplied. However, other prophecies which must come into consideration number, the Jendai Prophecy (The Sea Folk Prophecy), The Prophecy of Rhuidean (Aiel Prophecy), the Dark Prophecy found in Fal Dara, and the Cycle of the Horn. Included in this compilation is a passage from Vandene analyzing portions of the Karaethon Cycle and a passage from Verin that analyzes the Dark Prophecy. Both analysis provide the vital information needed to comprehend the complete import of the respective prophecies. =============== Reply 2 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM i. The Karaethon Cycle a. portions of the Karaethon Cycle as recounted by various characters 2.01 "One of the Prophecies says that the Stone of Tear will never fall until the People of the Dragon come to the Stone. Another says the Stone will never fall until the Sword That Cannot be Touched is wielded by the Dragon's hand...The Fall of the Stone will be one of the major signs that the Dragon has been reborn.(fulfilled)" (From the Prophecies of the Dragon, as related by Thom Merrilin to Rand al'Thor). 2.02 "For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew.(uncertain)" (quoted by Siuan Sanche, (then)The Amyrlin Seat raised from the Blue Ajah). 2.03. & "Twice and twice shall he be marked, Twice to live, and twice to die, Once the heron to set his path.(fulfilled) Twice the heron, to name him true.(fulfilled) Once the Dragon for remembrance lost.(fulfilled) Twice the Dragon for the price he must pay.(uncertain)"(quoted by Thom Merrilin to Rand al'Thor in Cairhien) 2.04 "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, once for birth. Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul. In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.(unfulfilled)"(quoted by Thom Merrilin to Rand al'Thor in Cairhien) 2.05 "When the winds of Tarmon Gai'don scour the earth, he will face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the world.(unfulfilled)" (quoted by Siuan Sanche, The Amyrlin Seat) 2.06 "Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he proclaim himself, bannered cross the sky in fire.(fulfilled)" (quoted by Vandene, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah). 2.07 "He has yet to break the nations, or shatter the world. Even scholars who have studied the Prophecies for their entire lives do not know how to interpret them all. What does it mean that he shall 'slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf'(unfulfilled)? What does it mean that he 'shall bind the nine moons to serve him'(unfulfilled)? Yet these there are given equal weight with Callandor in the Cycle. There are others. What 'wound of madness and cutting of hope'(uncertain) has he healed? What chains has he broken, and who put into chains?(fulfilled)" (quoted by Moiraine Damodred, Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah) 2.08 "His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's =============== Reply 3 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM salvation.(unfulfilled)"(quoted by Rand al'Thor) 2.09 "Power of the Shadow made human flesh, wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin.(fulfilled) The Reborn One, marked and bleeding, dances the sword in dreams and mist, chains the Shadowsworn to his will,(fulfilled) from the city, lost and forsaken, leads the spears to war once more,(fulfilled) breaks the spears(unfulfilled) and makes them see, truth long hidden in the ancient dream.(unfulfilled)"(quoted by Moiraine Damodred, Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah) 2.10 "There was no guide to how they were connected, or what they were supposed to do; the Prophecies never mentioned companions."(Moiraine's thoughts in the Heart of the Stone) 2.11 "Into the heart he thrusts his sword, into the heart, to hold their hearts.(fulfilled) Who draws it out shall follow after, What hand can grasp that fearful blade?(uncertain)" (quoted by Rand al'Thor) b. commentaries and translations from the Third Age on the Karaethon Cycle 2.12 "And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand nor abide... "Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last battle, and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation." (from The Karaethon Cycle: The Prophecies of the Dragon,as translated by Ellaine Marise'idin Alshinn, Chief Librarian at the Court of Arafel, in the Year of Grace 231 of the New Era, the Third Age.) 2.13 "'Five ride forth, and four return. Above the watchers shall he proclaim himself, bannered cross the sky in fire...' Well, it goes on. The point is, the word ma'vron. I say it should be translated not simply as 'watchers,' which is a'vron. Ma'vron has more importance to it. I say it means the Watchers Over the Waves, though they call themselves Do Miere A'vron, of course, not Ma'vron...But I believe it means the Dragon Reborn will appear somewhere above Toman Head, in Arad Doman, or Saldaea." (related by Vandene, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah) 2.14 "And his paths shall be many, and who shall know his name, =============== Reply 4 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM for he shall be born among us many times, in many guises, as he has been and ever will be, time without end. His coming shall be like the sharp edge of the plow, turning our lives in furrows from out of the places where we lie in our silence. The breaker of bonds; the forger of chains. The maker of futures; the unshaper of destiny." (from Commentaries on the Prophecies of the Dragon, by Jurith Dorine, Right Hand to the Queen of Almoren, 742 AB, the Third Age.) 2.15 "The Shadow shall rise across the world, and darken every land, even to the smallest corner, and there shall be neither Light nor safety. And he who shall be born of the Dawn, born of the Maiden, according to Prophecy, he shall stretch forth his hands to catch the Shadow, and the world shall scream in the pain of salvation. All Glory be to the Creator, and to the Light, and to he who shall be born again. May the Light save us from him." (from Commentaries on the Karaethon Cycle Sereine dar Shamelle Motara Counsel-Sister to Comaelle, High Queen of Jaramide (circa 325 AB), the Third Age) 2.16 "With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death." (fragment from The Prophecies of the Dragon believed traslated by N'Delia Basolaine First Maid and Sword fast to Raidhen of Hol Cuchone (circa 400 AB)) ii. prophecy pertaining to a certain people. a. The Jendai Prophecy 2.17 "He can wield the One Power, so I have heard, and he holds the Sword That Cannot Be Touched. The Aiel have come over the Dragonwall to his call; I have seen several in the streets, and it is said they fill the Stone. The Stone of Tear has fallen, and war breaks over the nations of the land. Those who once ruled have returned, and been driven back for the first time. Prophecy is being fulfilled." (fulfilled) "The Prophecy is being fulfilled. He is the Coramoor. Aes Sedai serve him(fulfilled). You are proof of that, that you are here in this city. That is in the Prophecy as well. 'The White Tower shall be broken by his name, and Aes Sedai shall kneel to wash his feet and dry them with their hair.(uncertain)'"(quoted by Coine din Jubai Wild Winds, Sailsmistress of the Wavedancer) b. The Prophecy of Rhuidean 2.18 "One of the old prophecies says that if ever we fail Aes Sedai again, they will slay us.(unfulfilled)"(related by Urien of the Two Spires sept of the Reyn Aiel) 2.19 "He will come from the west, beyond the Spine of the World, but be of our blood(fulfilled). He will go to Rhuidean, and lead us out of the Three-fold =============== Reply 5 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM Land(fulfilled)...In the dirt Urien scraped a circle with his spearpoint, then drew across it a sinuous line. 'It is said that under this sign, he will conquer.(fulfilled)'" (related by Urien, of the Two Spirers sept of the Reyn Aiel) 2.20 "In your Prophecies of the Dragon, the fall of the Stone and the taking of Callandor proclaim that the Dragon has been Reborn. Our prophecy says only that the Stone must fall before He Who Comes With the Dawn appears to take us back to what was ours. They may be one man, but I doubt even the Wise Ones could say for sure. If Rand is the one, there are things he must do yet to prove it." 2.21 "That one will come later...The stone that never falls will fall to announce his coming.(fulfilled) Of the blood, but not raised by the blood(fulfilled), he will come from Rhuidean at dawn, and tie you together with bonds you cannot break(fulfilled). He will take you back, and he will destroy you(uncertain)." (heard by Rand al'Thor as Mandein) 2.22 "...Without you, no one of our people will live beyond the Last Battle. Perhaps not even until the Last Battle. 'He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live.(unfulfilled)'"(quoted by Bair, of the Haido sept of the Shaarad Aiel) 2.23 "Born of the Blood, but raised by those not of the Blood.(fulfilled)" (quoted by Rand al'Thor) iii. dark prophecy. 2.24 "Daughter of the Night, she walks again.(fulfilled) The ancient war, she yet fights Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still. (unfulfilled-validity as prophecy questionable) Who shall stand against her coming? The Shining Walls shall kneel.(unfulfilled) Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be. The man who channels stands alone. He gives his friends for sacrifice. Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal. Which will he choose? Which will he choose? What hand shelters? What hand slays? Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be. Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill. =============== Reply 6 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:03 PM One did live, and one did die, but both are.(fulfilled) The Time of Change has come.(unfulfilled) Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be. The Watchers wait on Toman's Head.(fulfilled) The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.(fulfilled) Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes. Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes. Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.(unfulfilled) Now the Great Lord comes. Now the Great Lord comes. Blood feeds blood. Blood calls blood. Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be. Now the Great Lord comes.(unfulfilled)" (Prophecy of the Shadow found on the dungeon walls at Fal Dara, as translated by Verin Mathwin, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah.) a. Verin's interpretation of the dark prophecy 2.25 "'Daughter of the Night, she walks again.' That can only mean Lanfear is loose again. Or someone wants us to think she is...Other names are clear, too, Mother. Lord Luc, of course, was brother to Tigraine, then the Daughter-Heir of Andor, and he vanished in the Blight. Who Isam is, or what he has to do with Luc, I do not know, however...("Isam had been the son of Breyan, wife of Lain Mandragoran, whose attempt to seize the throne of Malkier for her husband had brought the Trolloc hordes crashing down. Breyan and her infant son had both vanished when the Trollocs overran Malkier. And Isam had been blood kin to Lan. Or is blood kin? I must keep this from him, until I know how he will react. Until we are away from the Blight. If he thought Isam were alive..[Moiraine's thoughts].") 'The Watcher's wait on Toman's Head,'...There are a few who still cling to the old belief that the armies Artur Hawkwing sent across the Aryth Ocean will return one day, though after all this time...The Do Miere A'vron, the Watchers Over the Waves, still have a...community is the best word, I suppose...on Toman Head, at Falme. And one of the old names for Artur Hawkwing was Hammer of the Light...Now, 'the ancient tree,'...There have always been rumors-no more than that-that while the nation of Almoth still lived, they had a branch of Avendesora, perhaps even a living sapling. and the banner of Almoth was 'blue for the sky above, black for the earth below, with the spreading Tree of Life to join them.' Of course, Taraboners call themselves the Tree of Man, and claim to be descended from rulers and nobles in the Age of Legends. And Domani claim descent from those who made the Tree of Life in the Age of Legends. There are other possibilities, but you will note, Mother, that at least three center around Almoth Plain and Toman Head...The Time of Change, of course, refers to the end of an Age, and the Great Lord-" (quoted from Verin Mathwin, Aes Sedai of the Brown Ajah) =============== Reply 7 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM iv. Prophecy of the Horn of Valere. 2.26 "In the last, lorn fight 'gainst the fall of long night,(unfulfilled) the mountains stand guard, and the dead shall be ward, for the grave is no bar to my call."(Thom reciting a verse from The Great Hunt of the Horn) 2.27 "There are Darkfriends still, as well as Halfmen and Trollocs, and those who come to the horn will follow whoever winds it." (Moiraine speaking to Lord Agelmar in Fal Dara) 2.28 "Agelmar was familiar with the Prophecy of the Horn; most who fought the Dark One were. "'Let whosoever sounds me think not of glory, but only of salvation.'"(Moiraine speaking with Suian) 2.29 "'The Pattern weaves itself around our necks like halters,' Artur Hawkwing said. 'You are here. The banner is here. The weave of this moment is set. We have come to the Horn, but we must follow the banner. And the Dragon.(fulfilled)'" (Artur Hawkwing speaking to Rand al'Thor at Falme) 3. Foretellings. Mr. Millard did not place specific emphasis on the various Foretellings mentioned in the Wheel of Time, however they should be given equal weight with Dreaming, Viewings, and Prophecy as predictive of future events. ii. Elaida's Foretellings. 3.01 "...From this day Andor marches toward pain and division. The Shadow has yet to darken to its blackest, and I cannot see if the Light will come after. Where the world has wept one tear, it will weep thousands...Pain and division come to the whole world, and this man stands at the heart of it.(uncertain)"(Elaida's Foretelling of Rand al'Thor in Caemlyn) 3.02 "The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted-and had known enough even then to keep to herself-was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle.(uncertain)" (from Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan's, (then) Aes Sedai of the Red Ajah, thoughts in Tar Valon.) ii. Diendre's Foretellings. 3.03 "Besides, the Da'shain yet have a part to play, if Deindre could only see far enough to say what.(unfulfilled)" "You will carry the...things...to safety, Jonai. Keep moving, always keep moving, until you find a place of safety, where no once can harm you.(fulfilled)" "Keep the Covenant, Jonai. If the Da'shain lose everything else, see they keep the Way of the Leaf. Promise me." "...And remember-keep moving. Keep the Aiel safe."(related by Solinda Sedai during the Breaking) =============== Reply 8 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM iii. Gitara Moroso's Foretellings. 3.04 "He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slope of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the World! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!(fulfilled)" (Foretelling by Gitara Moroso, (then) Keeper of the Chronicles) 3.05 "...disaster would befall her land and her people, perhaps the world, unless she went to dwell among the Maidens of the Spear, telling no one of her going. She[Tigraine] must become a Maiden, and she could not return to her own land until the Maidens had gone to Tar Valon.(fulfilled)" (related by Tigraine, (then) Daughter-Heir of Andor (also known as Shaiel) to Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel, and by Amys to Rand al'Thor) 4. Dreams. Between Egwene and Perrin's dreams, we discover perhaps more combined then through any other prophetic passeges in the entire series. In some ways they predict a greater scope of what is to come, but in most cases, the dream is fulfilled in the book it premiere's in. Just for reference, the Wise Ones on dreaming; "Almost anyone can touch Tel'aran'rhiod, but few can truly enter it. Of all the Wise Ones, we four alone can dreamwalk, and your Tower has not produced a dreamwalker in nearly five hundred years. It is not a thing of the One Power, though Aes Sedai believe it is. I cannot channel, nor can Seana, yet we dreamwalk as well as Amys or Melaine. Many people brush the World of Dreams in their sleep. Because they only brush against it, they wake with aches or pains where they should have broken bones or mortal hurts. A dreamwalker enters the dream fully, therefore her injuries are real on waking. For one who is fully in the dream, dreamwalker or not, death there is death here. To enter the dream too completely, though, is to lose touch with the flesh; there is no way back, and the flesh dies. It is said that once there were those who could enter the dream in the flesh, and no longer be in this world at all. This was an evil thing, for they did evil; it must never be attempted, even if you believe it possible for you, for each time you will lose some part of what makes you human. You must learn to enter Tel'aran'rhiod when you wish, to the degree you wish. You must learn to find what you need to find and read what you see, to enter the dreams of another close by in order to aid healing, to recognize those who are in the dream fully enough to harm you, to..." () i. Egwene's dreams. 4.01 "First there had been a man with a mask over his face, and fire in place of his eyes. Despite the mask, she had thought he was surprised to see her. His look had frightened her till she thought her bones would break from shivering, but suddenly he vanished, and she saw Rand sleeping on the ground, wrapped in a cloak. A woman had been standing over him, looking down. Her face was in shadow, but her eyes seemed to shine like the moon, and =============== Reply 9 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM Egwene had known she was evil. Then there was a flash of light, and they were gone. Both of them. And behind it all, almost like another thing altogether, was the feel of danger, as if a trap was just beginning to snap shut on an unsuspecting lamb, a trap with many jaws.(fulfilled)" (Dream of Egwene al'Vere) 4.02 Seanchan-"...of Seanchan too, of women in dresses with lightning bolts woven on their breasts, collaring a long line of women who wore Great Serpent rings, forcing them to call lightning against the White Tower...(unfulfilled)" Whitecloaks-"...binding her father's hands...(fulfilled)" Rand-"...reaching for a sword that seemed to be made of crystal, never seeing the fine net dropping over him(fulfilled). And one of him kneeling in a chamber where a parched wind blew dust across the floor, and creatures like the one on the Dragon banner, but much smaller, floated on that wind, and settled into his skin(unknown). There had been a dream of him walking down into a great hole in a black mountain, a hole filled with a reddish glare as from vast fires below(unfulfilled), and even a dream of him confronting Seanchan(fulfilled)." Perrin-"...with a falcon on his shoulder, and...with a hawk. Only the hawk held a leash in her talons-...both hawk and falcon were female-and the hawk was trying to fasten it around Perrin's neck(fulfilled)...with a beard!-leading a huge pack of wolves that stretched as far as the eye could see...(unfulfilled)" Mat-"...placing his own left eye on a balance scale(fulfilled)...hanging by his neck from a tree limb(fulfilled). There had been a dream of Mat and Seanchan, too, but she was willing to dismiss that as a nightmare(unfulfilled)...the one about Mat speaking the Old Tongue. (fulfillled).."(Egwene in thought about her dreams) 4.03 Rand-"...holding a sword that blazed like a sun, till she could hardly see that it was a sword, could hardly make out that it was him at all(fulfilled)...[Rand] threatened in a dozen ways, none of them the least bit real(fulfilled)...on a huge stone's board, the black and white stones as big as boulder, and him dodging the monstrous hands that moved them and seemed to try to crush him under them. It could have meant something. It very probably did, but beyond the fact that Rand was in danger from someone, or two someones-she though that much was clear-beyond that, she simply did not know.(fulfilled)" Perrin-"...with a wolf, and with a falcon, and a hawk-the falcon and the hawk fighting(fulfilled)-...running from someone deadly(uncertain), and [Perrin] stepping willingly over the edge of a towering cliff while saying, "It must be done. I must learn to fly before I reach the bottom (unfulfilled)." There had been dream of an Aiel, and she though that had to do with Perrin, too, but she was not sure.(fulfilled)" Min-"...springing a steel trap but somehow walking =============== Reply 10 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM through it without so much as seeing it.(fulfilled)" Mat-"...dice spinning 'round him...being followed by a man who was not there-she still did not understand that; there was a man following, or maybe more than one, but in some way there was no one there-...riding desperately toward something unseen in the distance that he had to reach, and Mat with a woman who seemed to be tossing fireworks about." "Men and women breaking out of a cage, then putting on crowns.(fulfilled) A woman playing with puppets, and another dream where the strings led to still greater puppets, on and on until the last strings vanished into unimaginable heights. Kings dying, queens weeping, battles raging. Whitecloaks ravaging the Two Rivers.(fulfilled) She had even dreamed of the Seanchan again. More than once. Those she shut away in a dark corner; she would not let herself think of them.(unfulfilled) Her mother and father, every night."(Egwene thinking on her dreams w/o the stone ter'angreal) 4.04 Seanchan-"The Seanchan, who she refused to think about.(unfulfilled)" Master Luhhan-"The Whitecloaks putting Master Luhhan in the middle of a huge, toothed trap for bait.(fulfilled)" Perrin-"Why should Perrin have a falcon on his shoulder(fulfilled), and what was important about him choosing between that axe he wore now and a blacksmith's hammer?(unfulfilled)" Mat-"...dicing with the Dark One, and why did he keep shouting, "I am coming!" and why did she think in the dream that he was shouting at her?(fulfilled)" Rand-"...sneaking through utter darkness toward Callandor, while all around him six men and five women walked, some hunting him and some ignoring him, some trying to guide him toward the shining crystal sword and some trying to stop him from reaching it, appearing not to know where he was, or only to see him in flashes. One of the men had eyes of flame, and he wanted Rand dead with a desperation she could nearly taste. She thought she knew him. Ba'alzamon(fulfilled)...Rand in that dry, dusty chamber again, with those small creatures settling into his skin(uncertain). Rand confronting a horde of Seanchan(unfulfilled). Rand confronting her, and the women with her, and one of them was a Seanchan...(unfulfilled)" 4.05 Rand-"...as tall as a mountain, walking through cities, crushing buildings beneath his feet, with screaming people like ants fleeing from him(unfulfilled). Rand in chains, and it was he who was screaming(unfulfilled). Rand building a wall with him on one side and her on the other, her and Elayne and others she could not make out. 'It has to be done,' he was saying as he piled up stones. 'I'll not let you stop me now.(unfulfilled)'" Aiel-"...fighting each other, killing each other, even throwing away their weapons and running as if they had gone mad.(fulfilled)" Mat-"...wrestling with a Seanchan woman who tied an invisible leash to him.(unfulfilled)" =============== Reply 11 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM Perrin-"A wolf-she was sure it was Perrin, though-fighting a man whose face kept changing.(fulfilled)" Galad-"...wrapping himself in white as though putting on his own shroud.(fulfilled)" Gawyn-"...eyes full of pain and hatred.(fulfilled)" Marin al'Vere (Egwene's mother)- "...weeping.(uncertain)"(from Egwene's thoughts) 4.06 Rand-"...sitting down in a chair, and somehow she knew that the chair's owner would be murderously angry at having her chair taken; that the owner was a woman was as much as she could pick out of that, and not a thing more...(fulfilled)" Perrin-"...lounging with Faile on his lap, kissing her while she played with the short-cut beard that he wore in the dream. Behind them two banners waved, a red wolf's head and a crimson eagle.(fulfilled) A man in a bright yellow coat stood near to Perrin's shoulder, a sword strapped to his back; in some way she knew that he was a Tinker, though no Tinker would even touch a sword(fulfilled). And every bit of it except the beard seemed important. The banners, Faile kissing Perrin, even the Tinker. Every time he moved closer to Perrin it was as if a chill of doom shot through everything.(unfulfilled)" Mat-"...throwing dice with blood streaming down his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not see his wound...(unfulfilled)" Thom-(while mat throws dice) "...put his hand into a fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's forehead.(unfulfilled)" "...storm, great dark clouds rolling without wind or rain while forked lightning bolts, every one identical, rent the earth.(uncertain)"(from Egwene's thoughts while speaking with Moiraine) ii. Perrin's dreams. 4.07 Mat-"...rattling a dice cup. His opponent stared at Mat with eyes of fire. Mat did not seem to see the man...(uncertain)" Egwene and Nynaeve and Elayne-"...stood looking at a huge metal cage, with a raised door held on a heavy spring. They stepped in and reach up together to loose the catch. The barred door snapped down behind them(fulfilled). A woman with her hair all in braids laughed at them, and another woman all in white laughed at her(fulfilled)." (Perrn Aybara's dreams in Illian) 4.08 Rand-"...stood amid swirling stormwinds, laughing wildly, even madly, arms upraised, and on the winds rode small shapes, gold-and-scarlet, like the strange figure on the Dragon banner(unfulfilled); hidden eyes watched Rand, and there was no way of telling whether he knew it.(uncertain)" Nynaeve and Elayne-"...stalking cautiously through a demented landscape of twisted, shadowed buildings, hunting some dangerous beast.(fulfilled)" Mat-"...standing where a road forked ahead of him. He flipped a coin, started down one branch, and suddenly was =============== Reply 12 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM wearing a wide-brimmed hat and walking with a staff bearing a short sword blade.(fulfilled)" Egwene and a woman with long white hair(Amys)-"...staring at him in surprise while behind them the White Tower crumbled stone by stone.(uncertain)" 4.09 Egwene-"...stood among a crowd of women, fear in her eyes; slowly the women knelt around her. Nynaeve was one of them, and he believed he saw Elayne's red-gold hair.(unfulfilled)" Mat-"...stood naked and bound, snarling; an odd spear with a black shaft had been thrust across his back behind his elbows, and a silver medallion, a foxhead, hung on his chest.(uncertain)" Rand-"Mat vanished, and it was Rand. Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.(unfulfilled)" iii. Wise One's dreams. 4.10 "'There is among the Maidens of the Spear in the Stone of Tear a willful girl called Aviendha, of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel. She must now come to us. There can be no more waiting or excuses. We will await her on the slopes of Chaendaer, above Rhuidean.(fulfilled)'"(the letter from Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel; Bair, of the Haido sept of the Shaarad Aiel; Melaine, of the Jhirad sept of the Goshien Aiel; and Seana, of the Black Cliff sept of the Nakai Aiel) 4.11 "Perhaps the Wise Ones really could teach her something of Dreaming. That had been the most astounding letter from them, not that she could afford to heed most of it."(Moiraine's thoughts in the Heart of the Stone) 4.12 "We may be about to see how useful Dreaming really is.(fulfilled)" (Moiraine's reference to the letter) 4.13 "I knew you would be here today, shade of my heart.(fulfilled)" (Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel to Rhuarc on Chaendaer) 4.14 "'That's what you meant about Dreaming...That's why you were willing to let Rand try to bring us here by Portal Stone. They knew about it, and told you in that letter. No, that doesn't make sense. If they had mentioned a Portal Stone, you wouldn't have tried talking him out of it. They knew we'd be here, though.'...'They wrote that they would meet us here, on Chaendaer, today...(fulfilled)'" (Egwene's revelation concerning Moiraine's reference to the letter from the four dreamwalkers) 4.15 "I(Amys) knew from the dream that if you(Moiraine) came, it was almost certain Aan'allein would as well, but I did not know he obeyed you.(fulfilled)"(dreams of the Wise Ones related by Amys, of the Nine Valleys sept of the Taardad Aiel) 4.16 =============== Reply 13 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM "We did not see Egwene or Mat Cauthon at all. It was no more than an even chance that the young man who calls himself Rand al'Thor would come. If he did not, it was certain that he would die, and the Aiel too. Yet he has come, and if he survives Rhuidean, some of the Aiel at least will survive. This we know. If you had not come, he would have died. If Aan'allein had not come, you would have died. If you did not go through the rings-(fulfilled)"(Moiraine, Melaine, and Seana in conversation on Chaendaer) 4.17 "'You are a fool, Rand al'Thor,...About this and many other things, you are a fool.'" (Amys speaking to Rand after the Lanfear attack) iv.Morin's dreams. 4.18 "Eyeing him closely, she asked, 'If someone stole your child, would you talk of the Way of the Leaf and suffering sent to test us?' He shook his head, and she said, 'I thought not, You will make a fine father. Teach me to use this spear.'" (Morin speaking to Jeordam) "An odd woman, but pretty." (Jeordam's thoughts) "'I saw your face in a dream,...(fulfilled)'" (Morin speaking to Jeordam) v. Sorelle's dreams. 4.19 "...Sorelle at twenty of fever her dreams told her was coming,...(fulfilled)" vi. Rand's dreams. (the validity of Rand's dreams as prophecy is questionable-he may have the ability to enter Tel'aran'rhiod, but so far NONE of his dreams have proven prophetic.) 4.20 "Rand's heart pounded as he ran,...'We have been waiting for you,' the Myrddraal hissed." 4.21 "The stone hallway was dim and shadowy,...'Will you ever wake again?'" 4.22 "He [Rand] had no idea what had awakened him from his unpleasant dream. He had been a little boy again, carrying Tam's sword and with a cradle strapped to his back, running through empty streets, pursued by Mordeth, who shouted that he only wanted his hand. And there had been an old man who watched them and cackled with mad laughter the whole time." 4.23 "Water dripped in the distance,...Ba'alzamon's face. One face." 4.24 "He dreamed of Tam. At first they were at the big oak table in the house, drinking tea while Tam told him about Prince Consorts, and Daughter-Heirs, and the Dragonwall, and black-veiled Aielmen. The heron-mark sword lay on the table between them, but neither of them looked at it. Suddenly he was in the West wood, pulling the makeshift litter through the moon-bright night. When he looked over =============== Reply 14 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM his shoulder it was Thom on the litter, not his father, sitting cross-legged and juggling in the moonlight./'The Queen is wed to the land,' Thom said as brightly colored balls danced in a circle, 'but the Dragon...the Dragon is one with the land, and the land is one with the Dragon.'/Further back Rand saw a Fade coming,...Two severed heads hung at its mount's coal-black shoulder. Lan and Moiraine, faces distorted in grimaces of pain. The Fade pulled on a fistful of tethers as it rode. Each tether ran back to the bound wrists of one of those who ran behind the soundless hooves, their faces blank with despair. Mat and Perrin. And Egwene<442>...'You are mine,' the raven said, and the sharp beak stabbed into his eye. He screamed as it plucked his eyeball out of his head.<443>"(Rand's dream on Almen Bunt's wagon on the way to Caemlyn) 4.25 "It seemed to Rand that he was sitting at table with Logain and Moiraine. The Aes Sedai and the false Dragon sat watching him silently as if neither knew the other was there. Abruptly he realized the walls of the room were becoming indistinct, fading off into gray. A sense of urgency built in him. Everything was going, blurring away. When he looked back to the table, Moiraine and Logain had vanished, and Ba'alzamon sat there instead. Rand's whole body vibrated with urgency; it hummed inside his head, louder and louder. The hum became the pounding of blood in his ears." (when Rand fell off the Caemlyn wall) 4.26 "He stood staring at the wooden door,...down into blackness and death." 4.27 "Through a shadowy forest Moiraine was prodding him with a sharp...Festering flesh almost obliterated the heron branded on his palm; white bone showed through red-edged gaps..." (Rand's dreams in Tear) 4.28 "Eyes, closed, Rand stroked through the water. Nicely cool...The woman looked at him, still neck-deep in the pond; her mouth tightened with irritation, and she vanished." 4.29 "Not protection from his own thoughts, though. Three women invaded them continueally. Not Isendre,...Aside from the nightmare, they were all pleasant dreams." 4.30 "...he had been teaching Aviendha how to swim, in a pond in the Waterwood back home in the Two Rivers..."(from Rand's thoughts in Rhuidean) 4.31 "...a confused dream of Min and Elayne helping him throw Aviendha, wearing nothing but that necklace over his shoulder, while she beat him over the head with a wreath of segade blossoms."(after Melaine's weading) 4.32 "This time he dreamed of Aviendha hurling fire, only she was not hurling it at a Draghkar, and Sammael was sitting by her side, laughing."(after the "Golden Bees" attack) 5. Visions. Visions, both Min's and the Aelfinn's, =============== Reply 15 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:09 PM which are described to occur much like the way Min reads auras, are best for long term prophecy of future events. No other piece has given us information from the very beginning that has yet to be fulfilled unless it is as ambiguous as the Karaethon Cycle. i. Min's visions. 5.01 group-"When you're all in a group? Sparks swirling around you, thousands of them, and a big shadow, darker than midnight. Its so strong, I almost wonder why everybody can't see it. The sparks are trying to fill the shadow, and the shadow is trying to swallow the sparks...You are all tied together in something dangerous, but I can't make any more of it." Egwene-"The girl [Egwene]? She's part of it. And the gleeman. All of you. You're in love with her...She loves you too, but she's not for you, or you for her. Not the way you both want...When I look at her [Egwene] I see the same as when I look at...Mistress Alys [Moiraine]. Other things, things I don't understand, too, but I know what that means. She won't refuse it.(fulfilled)" Lan-"...has seven ruined towers around his head, and a babe in a cradle holding a sword, and...(fulfilled)" Thom-"...a man-not him-juggling fire(fulfilled); and the White Tower, and that doesn't make any sense at all for a man.(uncertain)"<181> Perrin-"...a wolf(fulfilled); broken crown(unfulfilled); and trees flowering around him(unfulfilled)." Mat-"...a red eagle(fulfilled); an eye on a balance scale(fulfilled); a dagger with a ruby(fulfilled); a horn(fulfilled); and a laughing face.(unfulfilled)" Rand-"A sword that isn't a sword(fulfilled), a golden crown of laurel leaves(unfulfilled), a beggar's staff(unfulfilled), you[Rand] pouring water on sand(fulfilled), a bloody hand and a white-hot iron(unfulfilled), three women standing over a funeral bier with him on it(unfulfilled), black rock wet with blood(unfulfilled)-...Most of all, I see lightning around you, some striking at you, some coming out of you(unknown). I don't know what any of it means, except for one thing. You and I will meet again."(Min in conversation with Rand in Baerlon) 5.02 Egwene-"A white flame, and...(unfulfilled)" Elayne-"[Elayne'd] have to share her husband with two other women(unfulfilled);...would be a queen...saw a crown, and it was the Rose Crown of Andor(unfulfilled)...One of the things she(Min) said she saw looking at me was a severed hand. Not mine, she says.(unfulfilled)" 5.03 "She [Elayne] is linked to - to those boys as much as you [Nynaeve], or Egwene, or me. She's part of it, Nynaeve, whatever it is. Part of the Pattern, I suppose an Aes Sedai would say." (Min's viewing of Elayne in Tar Valon, as told to Nynaeve and Egwene) 5.04 =============== Reply 16 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM "Egwene, what if, after all you are going through for him, Rand doesn't marry you? What if he marries some woman you've never seen before, or Elayne, or me? What then?" (Min's questions to Egwene, in the Ways between Tar Valon and Toman Head) 5.05 "You know I've read you, Egwene. I don't understand most of it-I almost never do-but I see things I am sure link you to Rand, and Perrin, and Mat, and-yes, even Galad, the Light help you for a fool.." 5.06 Nynaeve-"A man's ring of heavy gold floated above Nynaeve's head...(unfulfilled)" Elayne-...and above Elayne's, a red-hot iron and an axe.(unfulfilled)" Both-"There was danger, but that was to be expected-and new things, too, among the images she had seen before...[viewing of Nynaeve and Elayne]...They meant trouble, she was sure, but it seemed distant, somewhere in the future.(unfulfilled)"(Min's viewing at Falme) 5.07 "We're all caught like flies in a spiderweb. What if I told her [Egwene] that there's another woman yet to come, one she doesn't even know? For that matter, what would you think of that, my fine Lord Shepherd? You aren't bad-looking at all, but ... Light, I don't even know if I am the one you'll choose. I don't know if I want you to choose me. Or will you try to dandle all three of us on your knee? It may not be your fault, Rand al'Thor, but it isn't fair". (Min's statements to Rand al'Thor at Falme) 5.08 Perrin-"'An Aielman in a cage(fulfilled);...A Tuatha'an with a sword(fulfilled). A falcon and a hawk, perching on his shoulders. Both female, I think. (fulfilled)And all the rest, of course. What is always there. Darkness swirling 'round you, and-'..." (Min's viewing of Perrin Aybara in Dragon Reborn Camp in the Mountains of Mist) 5.09 Ananda-"Yellow Ajah-wore a sickly brown halo, shriveled and split by rotting fissures that fell in and widened as they decayed.(fulfilled) -Green Ajah-"And on her shoulder, as if nestled among the grape vines and flowering apple branches worked on her shawl, sat a human skull. A small woman's skull, picked clean and sun-bleached.(fulfilled)" - -(plump pretty woman w/ blue eyes) "...seemed to be casting cool blue eyes on the petitioners through tattered curtain of blood, crimson streamers running down her face.(fulfilled)" Three Aes Sedai (Ananda and other two)-"All three of them! Light! What chance was there that three Aes Sedai would die on the same day?(fulfilled)" -Accepted-"...bars floated in front of her apple-cheeked face, like a cage.(fulfilled)" Sheriam-"...face battered and bruised.(fulfilled)" -Brown Ajah-"...aura faded like a guttered candle flame.(fulfilled)" warders-"...bloody faces, or gaping wounds. Swords and spears danced about their heads, threatening...auras =============== Reply 17 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM flashed wildly, flickered on the knife edge of death...dead men walking, knew they would die on the same day as the Aes Sedai in the entry hall, or at most a day later.(fulfilled)" servants-"...bore signs of violence.(fulfilled)" An Aes Sedai-"...appeared to have chains in the air around her...(fulfilled)" another-"...seemed for most of those few strides to wear a silver collar around her neck." Gawyn-"...streaks of dried blood had made his face a grim mask...wounded on the day the Aes Sedai died...he was going to be hurt more than the blood told, hurt somehow deeper than wounds to his flesh(fulfilled)...He scowled, and for an instant his face was that bloody mask again. More: a sword floated above his head, and a banner waved behind it. The long-hilted sword, like those most Warders used, had a heron engraved on its slightly curved blade, symbol of a blademaster, and Min could not say whether it belonged to Gawyn or threatened him.(fulfilled) The banner bore Gawyn's sigil of the charging White Boar, but on a field of green rather than the red of Andor. Both sword and banner faded with the blood.(unfulfilled)" Leane-"...a transparent mask of her own face, a screaming mask.(fulfilled)" Suian Sanche-"...lying on the floor, naked. Aside from her being only in her skin, there was something odd about the image, but it vanished before Min could say what.(fulfilled)"(Min's viewings in Tar Valon) Rand-"The first time I ever saw Rand, I saw three women's faces, and one of them was mine. I've never seen anything about myself before or since, but I knew what it meant. I was going to fall in love with him. All three of us were...The faces were blurred; I don't know who they are(unfulfilled)." (Min in conversation with Siuan Sanche, (then) Amyrlin of the White Tower former Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah) 5.10 Logain-"...a flaring halo around his head before, radiant in gold and blue...a halo that shouted of glory and power to come.(unfulfilled)" (Min's viewings of Logain in Tar Valon) 5.11 Logain-"Suddenly, for a moment, that flaring halo of gold and blue shone around his head, speaking of glory to come as surely as it had the first time she had seen it...(unfulfilled)" Gawyn-"...kneeling at Egwene's feet with his head bowed, and...breaking Egwene's neck, first one then the other, as if either could be the future....Worse, she had a feeling near to certainty that it was what she had done this day that had turned Gawyn toward those two possibilities.(unfulfilled)" (Min's viewing while leaving Tar Valon with Siuan Sanche) 5.12 Sheriam (Blue Ajah)-"Rays of silver blue flashed about her fiery hair, and a soft golden light...(unfulfilled)" Carlinya (White Ajah)-"...an image of a raven floating beside her dark hair; more a drawing of the bird than the bird itself. She thought it was a tattoo, but she =============== Reply 18 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM did not know its meaning.(unfulfilled)" Edesina (Yellow Ajah) -"To Min's eyes, a silvery collar suddenly appeared, snug around the woman's neck and as suddenly seemed to shatter. Min shivered. She did not like veiwings connected to the Seanchan. At least Edesina would escape somehow.(unfulfilled)"(Min's viewings in Salidar) 5.13 Siuan Sanche and Gareth Bryne-"'I had a viewing. An aura, and a bull ripping roses from around its neck(fulfilled), and...If you(Siuan) want to stay alive, you had better stay close to him(Gareth Bryne).' Despite the heat, Min shivered. She had only ever had one other viewing with an "if" in it, and both had been potentially deadly. It was bad enough sometimes knowing what would happen; if she started knowing what might...'All I know is this. If he stays close to you, you live. If he gets too far away, for too long, you are going to die. Both of you. I don't know why I should have seen anything about you in his aura, but you seemed like part of it.(unfulfilled)'"(Min's viewing in Salidar) 5.14 Faolain-"'A nasty woman...You'd think, if there was any justice, she would have an unpleasant future ahead of her.(unfulfilled)'"(comment on Faolain by Min as the Accepted led "Areina" and "Nicola" to be tested) 5.15 Marigan, Nicola, and Areina-"Those three you brought with you are trouble, and that is a viewing...I only caught glimpses of aura, and just out of the corner of my eye. Never when I was looking right at them, where I might have made something out.(unfulfilled)"(Min in conversation with Elayne) 5.16 "'Min, you had a vision about Rand and me, didn't you?'(Elayne)...'Yes.' (Min) It was a wary word...'You saw that we were going to fall in love.' 'Not exactly. I saw you'd fall in love with him. I don't know what he feels for you, only that he's tied to you some way.'...'And you saw there would be someone else. Someone I'd have to...share...him with.' 'Two,' Min said hoarsely. 'Two others. And...And I'm one.'...'Who is the third?' she asked quietly. 'I don't know,' Min mumbled. 'Only that she has a temper. Not Nynaeve, thank the light...(unfulfilled)'"(Elayne and Min in conversation in Salidar) ii. Aelfinn's visions a. Mat's questions and the Eelfinn's answers 5.17 "Should I go home to help my people?" ans: "You must go to Rhuidean.(fulfilled)" "Why should I?" ans: "If you do not go to Rhuidean...you will die." "Why will I die if I do not go to Rhuidean?" ans: "You will have sidestepped the thread of fate, left your fate to drift on the winds of time, and you will be killed by those who do not want that fate fulfilled." =============== Reply 19 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM "What fate?" ans: "To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons!(unfulfilled)...To die and live again, and live once more a part of what was!(uncertain)...To give up half the light of the world to save the world!(unfulfilled)" b. What we know of Rand's answers 5.18 "He had spent very nearly his whole life mooning after Egwene; he was not about to dive into that again until he was sure. Sure of something. Sure. If Dealings with the Territory of Mayene was to be believed..."(Rand's thoughts while dealing with the High Lords of Tear) 5.19 "Thom Merrilin had given him good advice; obviously her spies had missed some of the notes he had slipped into Rand's pockets. But the rest? It was madness. He could not have had this for an answer on the other side of that ter'angreal. It was not possible, surely." (Moiraine's thoughts in the Heart of the Stone) 5.20 "You do not want to extend Tear's sway all the way to Kinslayer's Dagger, Meilan? That is all right. I know who I mean to sit on the Sun Throne."(Rand al'Thor speaking in the Heart of the Stone) 5.21 "There is a suprise awaiting anyone who tries to channel Callandor out of the Stone, Moiraine. Do not think of taking it to the Tower for safekeeping; I could not make the trap pick and choose. The Power is all it needs to spring and reset, ready to trap again. I am not giving Callandor up forever. Just until I..."(Rand speaking to Moiraine) 5.22 "'Just until' what? He had been intending to say something other than 'until I come back.' But what?"(Moiraine's thoughts in the Heart of the Stone) 5.23 "'Unless...Does this come from your answers in the ter'angreal? Cairhien, and Callandor, and Rhuiidean? I told you those answers can be cryptic. You could be misunderstanding the, and that could prove fatal. To more than you.'"(Moiraine in conversation with Rand) 5.24 "They never mentioned Rhuidean to me, Mat."(Rand speaking of his Aelfinn answers to Mat.) c. What we know of Moiraine's answers 5.25 "No one may step through more than once. Only once. You may ask three questions, but you must ask all three and hear the answers before you may leave. Frivolous questions are punished, it seems, but it also seems what may be serious for one can be frivolous coming from another. Most importantly, questions touching the Shadow have dire consequences...If you asked about the Black Ajah, you might be returned dead, or come out a gibbering madwoman, if you came out at all. As for Rand...I am not certain it is possible to ask a question about the Dragon Reborn that does not touch the Shadow in some way."(Moiraine in conversation) 5.26 =============== Reply 20 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM "'A quiet life would kill you[Thom], I think...Tanchico will not, however. I guarantee that, and by the First Oath, you know it for truth'...'If you go with Elayne and Nynaeve, I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own. And I will see you again. You will survive Tarabon.(unfulfilled)'"(Moiraine in conversation with Thom) 5.27 "'If you do not go through the rings-' She(Melaine) cut off as if she had bitten her tongue./Egwene leaned forward intently. Moiriane had to enter Rhuidean? But Aes Sedai appeared to give no notice, and Seana spoke up quickly to cover Melaine's slip./'There is no one set path to the future. The Pattern makes the finest lace look coarse woven sacking, or tangled string. In Tel'aran'rhiod it is possible to see some ways the future may be woven. No more than that.'/Moiraine took a sip of wine. 'The Old Tongue is often difficult to translate.' Egwene stared at her. The Old Tongue? What about the rings, the ter'angreal? But Moiraine went blithely on...(fulfilled)" (Moiraine, Melaine, and Seana in conversation on Chaendaer) 5.28 "When we saw you go to the rings, each time it was you who brought up going, who demanded the right though you have none of the blood."(Moiraine, Melaine, and Seana in conversation on Chaendaer) 6. Ter'angreal used by the Wise Ones in Rhuidean. Unlike the ter'angreal for the accepted in Tar Valon, the rings in Rhuidean used by the Aiel to be elivated to Wise Ones is known to prophecize certain inevitable future events. The reason for including the evidence of what happened in the rings is best supported by Amys's description of the ter'angreal, "'In Rhuidean,...you will find three rings, arranged so...Step through any one. You will see your future laid before you, again and again, in variation. They will not guide you wholly, as is best, for they will fade together as do stories heard long ago, yet you will remember enough to know some things that must be, for you, despised as they may be, and some that must not, cherished hopes that they are..."() i. Aviendha. 6.01 "When she [Aviendha] saw him [Rand], she froze, and there was nothing cool in her blue-green eyes. Her gaze made the sun seem cold; he should have been burned to ash on the spot." (Aviendha returns from Rhuidean, having seen a portion of her future) 6.02 "I do not like him [Rand]!" Aviendha burst out. "I hate him! Hate him!" Had Egwene not known better, she would have thought her close to tears." (Aviendha's conversation with the Wise Ones, following her return from Rhuidean) 6.03 "Our ways shock her [Elayne]. She could not accept them. Why should I care if she can? I want no part of this! It =============== Reply 21 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 06/17 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 12:14 PM cannot be!" (Aviendha to Rand al'Thor) 6.04 "Naked but for that ivory bracelet, and that seeming to drag at her as if it weighed a hundred pounds, Aviendha had been running as hard as she could across a cracked clay flat. And behind her, Rand came, a giant twice the size of an Ogier on a huge Jeade'en, slowly but inexorably catching up." (Egwene's recollection of Aviendha's dream) ii. Moiraine. 6.05 "The memories fade...Most are already gone. Some, I knew already. Others...The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills, and we are only the thread of the Pattern. I have given my life to finding the Dragon Reborn, finding Rand, and seeing him ready to face the Last Battle. I will see that done, whatever it requires. Nothing and no one can be more important than that.(uncertain)" 6.06 "'...I will do everything short of sharing his bed to see that he gets it.' The rings had told her that that would be disaster. Not that she had ever considered it-the very idea still shocked her!-but in the rings it was something she would or could have considered in the future. It was a measure of her growing desperation, no doubt, and in the rings she had seen that it would bring ruination on everything. She wished she could remember how-there were keys to Rand al'Thor in anything she could learn about him-but only the simple fact of calamity remained in her mind." 6.07 "Since the first day I reached Rhuidean, I have known(fulfilled)...I hope that Egwene and Aviendha have survived unharmed. You see, I do not know what happens in the world after, except perhaps for one small thing which does not concern you(uncertain)...You will do well."(Moiraine's letter to Rand) 7. Eelfinn. Though not strictly speaking prophecy, the Eelfinn wish granting can be assumed to have major repercussions in future novels. 7.01 "I walk around with holes in my memory, holes in my life, and you stare at me like idiots. If I had my way, I would want those holes filled..." "Well, I want a way to be free of Aes Sedai and the Power, and I want to be away from you and back to Rhuidean, if you will not answer me." (Mat's wishes presumabely granted by the Eelfinn in the redstone Ter'angreal while at Rhuidean) 7.02 "Thus is our treaty written, thus is agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades. What was asked is given. The price is paid." =============== Reply 22 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/02 From: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Time: 6:12 PM Carolyn, No offense, but don't you have anything better to do than type all this out? Sincerely, Jay =============== Reply 23 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/03 From: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Time: 0:59 AM I admire you for your honesty,Jay,but I appreciate her efforts for all of us.Some of the things I have downloaded from her have proved to be very interesting as well as helpful.She's a true WOT fan. Lews =============== Reply 24 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/06 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 0:56 AM Jay, no offense, but don't you have anything better to do than ask me? I borrowed most of the stuff from compilations done by other people. The rest was found when I reread TSR and while my friend reread the series. It wasn't very hard and didn't take that long to make. Besides, if I'm here to discuss wot and I'm semi in charge of Jordan's fan club, shouldn't I know what I'm talking about? Shouldn't I be >>> interested in going indepth? And I've been here for three years. Don't you think that Is Jaim alive? and who is Rand's brother? get's pretty d*mn boreing the thousandth time I've seen it? There are some of us who like to go beyond the first obvious questions and give Jordan's works the credit they are worth. Someone on Internet has CREATED a Dark One Dictionary that's 40 something K. Hey, I'm not as bad as it gets. Moiraine Besides if you think I do all of these listings and etc, you're wrong. =============== Reply 25 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 11:09 AM Jay, also, I think I misunderstood you. You think that I write these all up on-line from a printed copy? No way. I have everything in a text file and I've figured out that Prodigy's messages are roughly sixty character's wide and sixty one-sixty two lines long. I have adapted all of the files I want to be uploadable into this format heading each "note" with a so that I know how much to copy to the clip board. I have Prodigy for Windows, so what I do is cut and paste things onto the bulletin board. It doesn't take me more than 20-30 minutes of Plus time to post everything I have in files. Also, I archive all of our conversations here in WoT. So, what I do is every week or so, export everything in this subject and then reply to the notes as I'm reading all in a text editor while I'm off-line. Then get on Prodigy again and paste my replies where I want them. For the past two or three months, I haven't gone over my two hour alotment and ever since I've started exporting, I've never gone over four hours. I save money this way! You should think of doing it. Moiraine Sorry to have jumped on your back before. I was a little offended. =============== Reply 26 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Date: 07/07 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 11:09 AM Lews, thanks for the support. I was beginning to think that everyone just ignored all of my directional notes. There's some new stuff in Export this that I typed out from previous issue of The Chronicles. On the first issue, I didn't have a laser printer, so I got someone else to type out and print up the guide to WoT. Thus, I didn't have the info in a file. So, Egwene's summary of Eye of the World is available in the Export this subject now. Moiraine =============== Reply 27 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/08 From: CPWW74B WILLIAM FARMER Time: 3:04 AM I'm no dimwit. The reason I've not asked yet is because I'm not on 5 yet, and hate to know it yet. Loial (Deeply offended) =============== Reply 28 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: CPWW74B WILLIAM FARMER Date: 07/08 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:27 AM I meant dimwit affectionately. I'm a trifle annoyed that everyone seems to ignore me. If you took it the wrong way, I will break our rules for once and say I'm sorry. You must understand that for everyone's protection we devised a rule that under no circumstances may anyone in this club write anything that is meant to be offensive. The reason being because there was a bunch of misunderstandings about a year or so ago which lead to the infamous apoligy board. Our members found the whole thing so rediculous that we promised eachother never to say the S word again (s o r r y). This means that if we find something on the board personally offensive, take a second and try to find another way of looking at it. I assure that I think that absolutely no one on the Robert Jordan board is really a dimwit. I hang out here for the intelligent conversations that do occur much more often then anywhere else I've been. Again, if I offended you, I assure that it was not intended to offend. Please remember that always...Moiraine =============== Reply 29 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/10 From: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Time: 1:27 AM Aaaaaeeeeiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not the S* word!!!! Oh wait....you said "Sorry". I thought you said "socialism". --Machin Shin-- =============== Reply 30 of Note 2 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Date: 07/10 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:11 AM Aaaaaieeeeeeee! The "s" word!!!! Machin, you really know better than that! Moiraine =============== Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ALL Date: 06/21 From: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Time: 2:57 PM What if we look at the motives for killing Asmodean? Someone didn't want Rand learning about his powers, but Lanfear always said she wanted him to learn so they could rule together. After falling into the Ter'angreal, even if she got back, would she really want Asmodean dead? (Regrettable - I liked him.) And what about Lan and Nynaeve? Moiraine's an interesting > lady, but would she really be kind enough to give Lan to Nynaeve after she died? Especially since Nynaeve seems only to want to destroy Moiraine... I'm lost on the Tigraine/Shaiel thing, though. I guess I'm really behind on some things...Anyone care to explain? Has anyone noticed how close the names Ilyena and Elayne sound? Is this foreshadowing? Lews married Ilyena - will Rand marry Elayne??? Just some thoughts, but let me know what you think. Birgitte =============== Reply 1 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Date: 06/21 From: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Time: 5:59 PM I'm not sure about motives for killing Asmodean. As for Moiraine, she's not as severe as she seems. She WANTS Nynaeve and Lan to be together, though she knows Nynaeve is set against her. Remember, Nynaeve hates her for doing something she had to do to save the world, bring the Two Rivers people into the fight, so it's really an unfounded hatred. I wouldn't be surprised if Nynaeve becomes a Blue,> and becomes very much like Moiraine. Ok, Tigraine/Shaiel: in the first few books, Tigraine was listed in the glossary. She was the Daughter-heir of Andor, and married Taringail Damodred, bearing a son, Galad. Then her brother Luc disappeared, and so did she, into the Waste a few years before the Aiel War. Shaiel appeared in the Waste a few years before the war, too, and asked to become a Far Dareis Mai. She said she regretted leaving her husband and baby son on the other side of the Spine. Near the start of the Aiel War, she and a clan chief fell in love, and during the war she got pregnant and kept fighting, all the> way to Dragonmount, where she gave birth to Rand and died. Her Aiel husband (if they actually married, I forgot) led a squad into the Blight, and in one battle he was given a fatal wound. He returned to his squad and said the man who killed him looked like Shaiel. If Shaiel IS Tigraine, then the man who killed Rand's father was Luc, since, being brother and sister, they should have a family resemblance. And Luc has turned evil through merging with Isem, if that's what he did. So it all makes sense. As for Elayne/Ilyana, yeah I too noticed. The Wheel weaves-> in mysterious ways . Rand will probably marry Elayne. And Aviendha. And Min. Min knows she has to share Rand, as does Elayne, and among Aviendha's people, it's acceptable for a man to have more than one wife, and since they're all friends, they'll probably live with it. Rand will be a very tired husband, though Juilin Sandar =============== Reply 2 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/21 From: XBFD75C TOBIAS BURMEISTER Time: 10:30 PM Nynaeve's dislike for Moi probably has more to do with Lan than the Two Rivers folk. I think the Battle Ajah is the only one suitible for a woman comitted to marrying the king of Malkier. Gawyn =============== Reply 3 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Date: 06/22 From: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Time: 9:21 PM For some reason, I have always hoped that Rand would marry (or choose, if he is never able to marry) Min. Out of the three, I like her the best. I don't suppose anyone out there has discovered some hint as to which of the three will get him (if any of them do)? - Galad =============== Reply 4 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Date: 06/23 From: XFTC37B OREN LASKIN Time: 6:08 PM If I had to take a geuss it would be Elayne. Elayne looks like Ilyena, will make Rand her warder, and Min siad she will share her husband with two others. An affair could kind of hurt the prestige of a royal family. =============== Reply 5 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Date: 06/24 From: CPAP18B JAMES MOCK JR Time: 4:34 PM As for who Rand marries, I don't know. But if you noticed all three SHARE him. =============== Reply 6 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: CPAP18B JAMES MOCK JR Date: 06/24 From: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Time: 9:51 PM I had hoped that the "sharing" would end after Tarmon Gaidon (if he survives). Oh well-- just my romantic side getting the better of me . Nothing indicates this would happen except the wishful thinking of Elayne and Min (Av seems determined to deliver Rand safely to Elayne). - Galad =============== Reply 7 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: CPAP18B JAMES MOCK JR Date: 06/25 From: UGMK15A J MICHAEL WEST Time: 10:28 AM How can all three share him? Lets say Rand is to prudish to have three wives. (Or maybe to smart? Ha Ha). Scenario: 3 to share Rand: 1. Elayne Bonds him as warder. 2. Min marries Rand. 3. Aviendha and Rand have child. There was some indication this might already be started. >>> When Wise Women & Avi were talking in Cairhein about Avi's success with Rand might be better than thought, they quickly stopped talking when Rand was around - flimsy, but possible support. MIKE =============== Reply 8 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: FHSV34C STEPHANIE CAIN Date: 06/25 From: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Time: 7:27 PM Birgitte, If you are confused, than I am utterly lost! What I would like someone to explain is the whole thing that happened in the ter'angreal in Rhuidean? I got the basics, but it still really confused me. =============== Reply 9 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/25 From: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Time: 7:32 PM Wait a minute, how can you make the assumption that Shaiel and Tigraine are the same person? I'm confused. Would that make Rand and Elayne related somehow? Is this going to turn out to be another dissapointing situation like in Return of the Jedi? Ben =============== Reply 10 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Date: 06/25 From: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Time: 10:53 PM Easy to make the assumption: all the facts fit together. Tigraine disappeared into the Waste shortly before the Aiel War. Shaiel was found in the Waste shortly before the Aiel War. Tigraine was married to Taringail and had baby son Galad. Shaiel regretted leaving her husband and baby behind. Tigraine's brother, Luc, disappeared into the Blight, and we have seen his return, evil. Rand's dad said he was killed-> by a man in the Blight that looked like Shaiel. Family resemblance. But don't worry! Elayne and Rand aren't related. Rand and Galad are. They shared the same mother. Elayne's dad is Galad's dad, so they're related as well. Elayne and Rand have no parent in common, but technically Rand should have some sort of Andoran title of nobility in addition to all his other titles he's accumulated, because his mom was once the Daughter-Heir of Andor. Everything fits together, if you just look. It's the Wheel's way of weaving the Patterns of all these people together -Juilin- =============== Reply 11 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/25 From: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Time: 11:34 PM Nicely said Juilin. Rogosh =============== Reply 12 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: UHMH64A TROY RACKHAM Date: 06/27 From: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Time: 1:12 AM However, I could be completely wrong, and in the next couple books Jordan could throw in some twists, so we'll see that Rand and Elayne ARE siblings, ala Return of the Jedi. And we'll also see that Ishamael is really Rand's father -Juilin- =============== Reply 13 of Note 3 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: HVSH31C KEITH HOLVEN Date: 06/28 From: ECPN23A TIMOTHY MARTIN Time: 2:22 PM - Galad =============== Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ALL Date: 06/23 From: XFTC37B OREN LASKIN Time: 6:08 PM If Rand hit Lanfear or Ishmael with the strongest balefire by combining with women with the the great sa'angreal could he change the pattern so that the DO was never freed in the Age of Legends? =============== Reply 1 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: XFTC37B OREN LASKIN Date: 07/08 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:05 PM More than likely they'd just destroy the Pattern and that would be the end. THE end. Not just an ending. When Moiraine warns Rand not to use Balefire, she says something to this effect. I think she mentions it when Rand kills the Dark Hounds that try to kill mat at the beginning of FOH. I don't have FOH right now so I cannot be more specific. Moiraine =============== Reply 2 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/09 From: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Time: 1:02 AM That would create such huge paradoxes...I don't like it, largely because it would mean nothing in any of the books ever happened. Rand & co. would cease to exist if he did that (if such an huge channeling is even POSSIBLE) because of the immense change. I doubt the Pattern could handle such a strain, such a key thread being ripped out so far back. It would fall apart like a tapestry that had threads> torn out from the middle, threads that connected to countless others and were involved in key connections. That is the analogy that is used for the Pattern throughout the series; applying it here makes it seem unlikely that such a massive use of balefire would be the ending. In addition, from a purely aesthetic viewpoint, it seems like a collasal copout; that nothing ever really happened because it was all undone. No Last Battle or anything. aviendha =============== Reply 3 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Date: 07/09 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 7:45 AM I really do begin to appreciate your Rand's prison idea. Did you read my analysis? I included it and gave a decently detailed report for it, considering I had been working on the bloody thing all day and was extremely tired when I finally finished it...Moiraine =============== Reply 4 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Date: 07/10 From: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Time: 1:27 AM Add to that paradox our understanding of the Dark One's prison (i.e., he's imprisoned by the Wheel of Time which weaves the Pattern but is also somehow woven back *into* the Pattern). Therefore, destroying the Pattern would destroy the Wheel which would free the DO. --Machin Shin-- =============== Reply 5 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/10 From: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Time: 2:43 AM Yep, I read it. I did download both files, too...didn't download the prophecies, though, since I do get the Chrons. Thanks...oh, btw, do we need to send you more $ for the Chrons? avi =============== Reply 6 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: GSFN34D ANDREA LEISTRA Date: 07/10 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:18 AM I just updated my books and I've decided that your subscription is up as of the August issue. I'll send you a little note saying that, don't worry. (really, you've been riding on my generosity for a couple of newsletter, but I figured that all of those who were the originals to subscribe deserved many freebies and my thanks!) But, the file in Pred&Thts is an updated version of TC. I've even >> updated it since I've uploaded it since I have found some more dreams of Rands! Stupid man, he's had more dreams than anyone else combined. To bad their all non prophetic! Moiraine =============== Reply 7 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Date: 07/10 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 9:18 AM But what good would his freedom be if the universe were destroyed? REALLY. Moiraine =============== Reply 8 of Note 4 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Date: 07/10 From: GSFN34A GERARD FILICKO Time: 11:23 PM There are all sorts of avenues left open to "evil deities" in fantasy once their universe is destroyed. Most notably, I'll refer you to Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone series. The primary goal of the Lords of Chaos (the controlling evil entities) was to destroy the universe (at the end of a millenium) in order to recreate it under their own fashion. They succeeded quite well. --Machin =============== Note 5 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ALL Date: 07/02 From: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Time: 6:19 PM In the next book, Lord of Chaos, does anyone think Rand will start kick some Red Ajah butt? They no longer have a reason for existing now that Rand has claimed all men who can channel. Another thought, how will Rand keep from going crazy? I think he will get the two great sa'angreal, get Nynaeve (the strongest woman) and together they will somehow cleanse Saidin. Rand made a comment about this somewhere in Fires of Heaven. He was wondering if there was some possibility of shielding or cleansing Saidin. Any comments???? Jay =============== Reply 1 of Note 5 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/03 From: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Time: 0:59 AM It seems to be a good possibility that the taint will be healed.If the Eye of the World was created by tapping through the taint and the Aes Sedai back then were able to get some of the pure saidin,then that shows that it must be possible still.There must be some flaws to the DO's taint,in order for that to happen.Also,if the DO has the ability to taint saidin,then most likely there is a way to cleanse it. The only thing is,though,I have thought all along (and also because of some of RJ's comments) that there is going to be some twist to all of this.I think he has some ultimate scheme worked out that will be much different at the end of the series than the "happily ever after" endings we see in most series' endings.Everything right now seems to fall right into Rands hands,not easily,but still a little too easy.Somehow I think that RJ is "lulling" us into a false sense of security and that he is going to "drop the hammer" sometime soon and that Rand is going to find things much tougher than we realize (or Rand realizes).I think that the ending is going to be something that none of us expect. And I kind of hope that is how it will be because the series is already different from any I personally have read and to have a different ending than most would surely make this series stick out in my mind even more than it already does. I think we are going to have a bittersweet ending.But,I certainly am not RJ,and I certainly don't know.(But I'd like to.....) Lews Therin =============== Reply 2 of Note 5 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: UVCB78A MARK PRYBYLA Date: 07/03 From: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Time: 1:38 AM Interesting note, the eye of the world was made with thirteen of the weakest male channelers. I think the words were "just barely trained" or something like that. Anyways on to the Red Ajah. There has been questions about what the different ajahs did before the breaking. I believe that with a lost of power athey had to divide their responsiblities. The red on the other hand started something entirly new. Why? Well, We know there were Aei Sedai that went to the dark side during the war of the Shadow. Therefore the begining of the Black Ajah. Now, the Dark one also knows that as the first Dragon dies, it will be the second dragon that defeats him again. So, who better to look for that next Dragon than Aei Sedai, and who better to deal with him than an Ajah who's purpose is to hunt down men that can channel. Therefore I believe the Red Ajah was started and is still almost entirely Black Ajah. I'm sure there are member of the Red Ajah that are not Black Ajah, such as Elaida whom I believe is truely afraid of men that can channel. Well, can't think of anything else to say . Rogosh Eagle-eye =============== Reply 3 of Note 5 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Date: 07/03 From: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Time: 2:51 PM Ronald, I also doubt that Elaida is black ajah. Her Keeper of the Chronicles is black ajah and is trying to undermine Elaida. I personally think that Rand should gather all red ajah together, give them the opportunity to pick another color or be permanently stilled. He must learn to be hard and deal with his enemies harshly. (Aiel philosophy) ---->>> If Rand had the Great sa'angreal, the statuette, could a circle of thirteen manage to shield him. They refer to the process as being ALMOST impossible to overcome by a male channeler. The word 'almost' would indicate that a very strong individual with the ultimate sa'angreal could overcome the circle. Any comments????? Sincerely, Jay =============== Reply 4 of Note 5 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: CSXW80A RONALD ROOF JR Date: 07/08 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 8:57 PM >Interesting note, the eye of the world was made with >thirteen of the weakest male channelers. I think the words >were "just barely trained" or something like that. Oh, contraro, Rogosh. The Eye of the World was made with a hundred women and men working in unison and all gave their lives in the effort. "It was the first days of the Breaking of the World, when the joy of victory over the Dark One turned bitter with the knowledge that all might yet be shattered by the weight of the Shadow. A hundred of them made it, men and women together. The greatest Aes Sedai works were always done so, joining _saidin_ and _saidar,_ as the True Source is joined. They died, all, to make it pure, while the world was torn around them. Knowing they would die, they charged me to guard it against the need to come. It was not what I was made for, but all was breaking apart, and they were alone, and I was all they had. It was not what I was made for, but I have kept the faith." Of course, now we know that it was NOT in the first days after the defeat of the Dark One, though perhaps it WAS in the first days of the Breaking. Coulin was sixteen when the Dark One was resealed into Shayol Ghul and it must have been over sixty three years after that that the Eye of the World was made and when the Stone was created and Callandor put in place. Because Jonai was sixty three when he left the Hall of Servants and Paaren Disen (Paradise). It's my theory that where Shayol Ghul and the Blight now lies is where Collam Daan once lay beneath the Sharom, but that's only a guess. Moiraine =============== Reply 5 of Note 5 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: BPHX44A JAY HAFELE Date: 07/09 From: CPWW74B WILLIAM FARMER Time: 1:51 AM Maybe some ancient Aes Sedai (Male) hid off in Shara during the aftermath of the breaking. Finds Rand. Teaches Him. William =============== Note 6 ================= Board: SCIENCE FICTION BB Topic: ROBERT JORDAN Subject: PREDICTIONS&THOUGHTS To: ALL Date: 07/08 From: BJRK57C CAROLYN FUSINATO Time: 8:57 PM Kieth Holven wrote the following on 6/21 5:59 PM ET >I'm not sure about motives for killing Asmodean. As for >Moiraine, she's not as severe as she seems. She WANTS >Nynaeve and Lan to be together, though she knows Nynaeve >is set against her. Remember, Nynaeve hates her for doing >something she had to do to save the world, bring the Two >Rivers people into the fight, so it's really an unfounded >hatred. I wouldn't be surprised if Nynaeve becomes a Blue, >and becomes very much like Moiraine. I love you! Do you know that? I mean, that's exactly what I think about Moiraine's character and suprisingly that's exactly what I think about Nynaeve. I think that they are much more alike than Nynaeve is willing to admit to and I've often thought that it would be extremely ironic if she chose Blue Ajah and continue Moiraine's fight against the Dark One w/ Lan at her side (when Myrelle passes him on to her). I thought it would be ironic, that doesn't mean that it will necessarily happen, or even that I put too much stock in it happening. I just believe that Nynaeve and Moiraine are much more similar then Egwene and Moiraine. To add to that list, I think Moghedian's right in there w/ them which explains why Nynaeve took such a liking to her specifically. I think Moghedian is A-(loaned out my FOH book)(she's the one who dresses like Birgitte-also ironic). As for Elayne possibly being Ilyena reborn. I'm not sure that Ilyena could channel. I've raised this point when someone tried to place a timeperiod on when Lews must have broken up w/ Lanfear by and have married Ilyena. The War of the Shadow lasted for three generations. From when Charn was probably in his twenties to when his grandson, Coumin was sixteen and it was announced that the Forsaken had been bound w/ the Dark One in Shayol Ghul. At the least, the War of the Shadow must have lasted sixty years (nothing near the ten years that Lews cited in EOW) Therefore, it is altogether possible that Ilyena was born at the beginning of the War of the Shadow had Lews's children mid war and had grown to mid age by the end of the War, if she was unable to channel. Consider this also. For Lews to have died when he did, that meant that the War was over and the Forsaken already bound. As a matter of fact, it could have been any number of years AFTER the War that Lews actually went mad and killed everyone who was close to him. Also, Lews was middle aged looking when he died, and Moghedien was two hundred years old when she is imprissoned and considered still young for an Aes Sedai. Thus, Lews could have been over four hundred centuries years old when he died. Consider the number of relatives he could have had by then if Ilyena was able to channel and had been a part of his life for a couple of centuries. I imagine that they only spent a small portion of Lews's life together and that he only had a handful of kids when he went mad and did the act that named him Kinslayer. Thus, I don't think that Ilyena could channel. Additionally, she didn't save her children or anything which she might have been able to do should she have been able to channel. I imagine that she would have protected her children, at least, if she had the opportunity to do so. Clearly she didn't.