From: BEATLE To: YNGLING Subject: backmasks Date & Time: 07/14/90 22:59:44 Message Number 6352 > "Lwdre op inth fred vwan." As opposed to "Lwdre op inth barney vwan"?? I actually think it sounds more like "enin rebmun"... but that's only my opinion... =========== From: BEATLE To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/14/90 23:04:35 Message Number 6353 On the subject of the metal music that advocates satansism, etc.: I think that it may be a very valid type of music, considering the fact that besides the lyrics, there is music. I know sometimes this isn'ttrue, and I know sometimes the lyrics are really important. BUT, why don't people sometimes just listen to the MUSIC, and not the words.. =========== From: BEATLE To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/14/90 23:09:14 Message Number 6354 > how important is a belief? Well, I am all for belief in anything, but I don't like those who f force it upon others and such... I know that, in laws, we are forced to take one over the other, but religion is free, and we have the right to choose which religion, or none, that we wan What I mean to say is that beief in something is important, but a person shouldn't let a belief rule every aspect of their life. One thing I have noticed about religios people: Those of us who don't really go for religion, or those of uwho question it, seem to be more open minded and intelligent than those who make a deal out of telling us to believe... =========== From: JIM DILLOW To: JONBOY Subject: thing change Date & Time: 07/14/90 23:25:38 Message Number 6355 Beliefs last until you change them. To me people take themselfs and thier beliefs to be final....not remembering they change, update and forget! Later. Jim =========== From: XTEVE To: DONTHEN Subject: readme Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:10:41 Message Number 6357 Thanks for the explanation. Sorry 'bout the topic mixup, I'm new here and I try but I'm not yet a computergeek of stature. =========== From: XTEVE To: TURTLE Subject: NOT SURE Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:14:30 Message Number 6358 okee dokee, thats fine about the no-room-for-files thing. It's not as easy as making a direct call anyway... see ya. -Xteve =========== From: XTEVE To: RAVEN Subject: NOT SURE Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:17:46 Message Number 6359 Ah man, that's it. Sorry. Hey, there's a message for you from me Subj="help" (I think). Check it out. PS: How about them cheerleaders? - Xteve =========== From: DONTHEN To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:40:35 Message Number 6360 To your "open mined" friend: OMF> If you do good with good motives, it's from God. If you do good OMF> with bad motives, it's from Satan. But never does it come from a person's own volition? Incidentally, you can follow the "Golden Rule" whether you are a Baptist, Buddhist, Witch or even (can it truly be?) a furry fan. You, Dave's open minded friend, are thinking from entirely too Christian a viewpoint. This is not an insult, just an observation -- and an explanation of why quoting Bible verses will never serve to convince a skeptic of your religion's Truth. If they don't accept the Bible as the Word of God, then they're not going to be convinced to accept it as such based on its word alone. Does this make sense to you? =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: Earth? Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:49:18 Message Number 6361 We've had to do some storyline editing, usually after Spellwind posted. Sigh. Anyway, any "quests" develop strictly on the volition of the characters involved. There are things that are going to happen with my /own/ characters; a story that's starting to be serialized in a fanzine called YARF! takes place in another part of Ranea over a timespan of two months or so before when the storyboard is set at, and the end of that story overlaps the storyboard in both time and location. However, I'm not planning to do anything with the characters I'm running now in relation to anyone else's characters as of yet... if that happens, it'll just develop, much like it'd probably happen in a real-life (albeit fantasy world) situation). =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:54:27 Message Number 6362 Actually, I've been writing about that with regards to a current song by Heart. I find demeaning songs as least as offensive, if not more so, than violent songs. "Hot Blooded" I find difficult to take seriously; as for Def Leppard, well, you could get offended at "Pour Some Sugar on Me" but it probably wouldn't be worth the energy. Considering those two are generally the worst nowadays (barring wonders like "Lips and Hips," or at least hoping they are flukes and not omens) in heavy metal/ hard rock, things are looking up. Over the last decade or so, the songs have gradually moved away from the size of the lead singer's dick and towards usually coherent, and sometimes even thoughtful, songs about not just relationships but political & social concerns. You'll find a lot of fluffy love/lust songs in hard rock and metal just like you will in "pop" and rap music, but you're not likely to find Janet Jackson or M.C. Hammer penning equivalents to Don Henley's "Heart of the Matter" or Metallica's "One." =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: Stuporbrain! Date & Time: 07/15/90 01:03:22 Message Number 6363 It probably COULDN'T talk to the NorthStar even if you had it. Turtle's away for the weekend (I hope you didn't literally leave the Apple stuff on his doorstep today, or else it's pretty much dead by now with the rains) and I can't attempt to put anything on an Intertec disk format without it -- a copy of VDE (text editor) and IMP, a usable if not particularly thrilling terminal program, would be real nice. =========== From: ANGEL To: NAME Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 01:22:10 Message Number 6364 > Purgatory, WHERE in the Bible does it say ANYTHING about purgatory? Hey, it doesn't have to be in the Bible to be codified by Christian religions. The good book doesn't make a mention of the Trinity (God in Three Persons), but it's still a tenet of most Christian faiths. =========== From: THRUD To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 07:52:57 Message Number 6365 I grok what you're saying. One of my greatest regrets is that I shall never meet Lori and Lauralie . When I was 14 (many moons ago) I spent the entire summer mowing lawns in the morning and hanging in the St.Pete Public Library sci-fi section in the afternoon. That's were I found my name, too. =========== From: THRUD To: JONBOY Subject: blazing eyes... Date & Time: 07/15/90 08:06:54 Message Number 6366 You stole my next post! Now if i proceed to beat the reigning champion senseless and abduct the fair maiden everybody will think I'm a plagerist. Jeez, now I have to come up with an origianl thought..."The polar bear ate the reigning champion..." =========== From: JONBOY To: YNGLING Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:02:45 Message Number 6367 Now *that* a new one I hadn't heard. My my, interesting folks those Popes. In todays world maybe its a little tougher to actually pull off the "holier than thou" so we don't see as much. I knew that they had sanctioned assasinations but not created an organization to carry them out. What was it called? There are other interesting things around tha time frame like mistresses of vatican officials, running "call girls" in and out, graft, bribery etc etc. Just fun luvin Italians! =========== From: JONBOY To: NAME Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:11:47 Message Number 6368 Again - Catholicism is a wj=hole different ballgame. There are many many things that hard-core Catholics believe that stirred the Protestant movement to begin with. Another that really stirs a lot of people is the doctrine that infants must be baptised to atone for "original sin" otherwise they teach * That infant will go to hell !!!!!! Now this is kinda personal for me 'cause a well-meaning (but still a stupid insensitive clod) priest told my mother this shit after my infant brother died of a heart defect 2 weeks after he was born. She knows that this is not true but still it upset her very much. You have to also understand that the Catholic religion, because of it's glaring n0n-adherance to the Bible, has practised a policy of repression throughout the centuries. It used to be punishable by DEATH to own a Bible... JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: BEATLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:18:02 Message Number 6369 Bravo! I was hoping that someone would say that! As a musician type I usually DO listen to the music and the lyrics sometimes get in the way. People think I'm weird because I can't id a tune by the lyrics, but rather the tune itself. I used to really enjoy AC/DC until someone pointed out the lyrics - ah hell - why'd they have to go and do that? I still listen to it but (and it sound silly even to me) but now I feel vaguely uncomfortable knowing the lyrics are there and the stuff they advocate is against what I believ JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: DONTHEN Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:33:59 Message Number 6370 Yeah - sometimes I really wish I could *know* just how much "love songs" have contributed to the rise of divorce as people are filled with pure romanticised trash about "luv". John Cougar Mellencamp has always been a favorite for meaningful songs as also Simon & Garfunkel. Tracy Chapman is vastly overrated (but I DO like her tunes) as far as social awareness. Actually I consider Henley's "Heart of the Matter" to be a giant cliche' from one end to the other. I listened to it several times to make sure it wasn't a joke! As far as songs like Metallica's "One" and stuff like White Lions's (umm what was that tune about the children?) anyway I look at is as a passing fad. Metal has been under so much criticism for lack of finesse' (they call it Thrash y'understand that now we see many groups throwing in a token acoustic piece just to prove they can. How silly.... "look ma - no pickups!". Metal music has a place in the world and sex will continue to be a driving force behind it - I know many rock-n-roll wannabes that will flat out tell you that "Getting the girls" is a big factor in being a rock-n-roller. =========== From: JONBOY To: THRUD Subject: blazing eyes... Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:45:11 Message Number 6371 You could always have it take a shit on the bar - therby disproving the ancient axiom about a forest being necessary... helpful JonBoy =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:52:57 Message Number 6372 That's a very black-and-white approach to "the way heavy metal works." Metallica has never, to the best of my knowledge, recorded any song that could be considered a love/lust song. Social consciousness is not a passing fad in music, even popular music; when you look at the the most popular artists of the '80s, most of them at least had some socially aware songs, even, yes, Michael Jackson -- and some of the biggest acts were U2 and Bruce Springsteen, hardly icons of the "Boom I've Got Your Girlfriend" audience. Hard rock/metal is not all lyrically vapid, and for the most part, it's more intelligent than pop counterparts. Hell, even the ones that ARE love songs, like Kiss's "Forever," are often more interesting than top pop bop schlop. =========== From: KEN OBER To: JONBOY Subject: computers Date & Time: 07/15/90 13:36:02 Message Number 6374 Cool! Anything to /anything/!? How about -- Err, an Atari 2600 game to run on a PDP 11? hehehehe... But seriously, If I gave you some MACPAINT pictures, could you convert them over to GIF fo me? =========== From: KEN OBER To: DONTHEN Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 13:41:13 Message Number 6376 > Janet Jackson Yee Ghods! He finally used someone /besides/ Paula Abdul for an example of "POP" musicians -- But he always point out women, I think there is so me sort of discression going on here! :) =========== From: KEN OBER To: DONTHEN Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/15/90 13:44:22 Message Number 6377 > Michael Jackson Okay, I take the last statement back, I guess we /coul/ consider him male! :) =========== From: RUFUS To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: HD Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:11:20 Message Number 6378 Yea, I tried the bad card in the real Apple and no go. Oh well, at least the BBS is up and nothing I need right at this moment is blown up and smoking. I'll just daisy chain the two drives together... =========== From: RUFUS To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:24:38 Message Number 6379 If you look in your TV Guide, it's listed under "Moody Science." I've found it on at 4 a.m., 5 p.m., and all times inbetween. =========== From: RUFUS To: JONBOY Subject: Calling... Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:25:40 Message Number 6380 Thanks for the help. Doesn't matter now. One computer (the Friggin' Ace 1000) will only recognize the hard disk half the time. The rest of the time I get stuff like "path not found," and when running the BBS "bad drive specifer," which means it can't find the disk. Now I'm just running the BBS off the Apple.... =========== From: RUFUS To: JONBOY Subject: Earth? Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:28:35 Message Number 6381 Thanks...I'll be stopping by Turtle's one of these days. Maybe Turtle will be nice and fix Zot's power supply. The plug just needs to be fixed on it. Zot's Apple //c got dropped... =========== From: ETC... To: ALL Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/15/90 15:46:08 Message Number 6382 Im wodering who all here believes we should have manditory recycling programs... =========== From: NAME To: DONTHEN Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/15/90 16:17:36 Message Number 6383 D> ...if they don't accept the bilble as the word of God... I don't care if they do or not. The only thing I was worried about was that you guys are all quoting the bilble out of context. It distorts what is meant. =========== From: NAME To: JONBOY Subject: Catholicism Date & Time: 07/15/90 16:29:41 Message Number 6384 I am glad you go my point, that was, the misrepresentation of God's word. I will try my best not to do this, but I wold like to keep sharing my point of view. I agree with you that the Catholics don't even READ the bible; after all they're taught the priest is the only one that can interpret it correctly. This is the first step toward occultism, that is, to never question authority. =========== From: DONTHEN To: KEN OBER Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 18:33:33 Message Number 6385 The only male pop stars I can think of are George Michael and New Kidss on the Block. I don't dislike George, although I'm not especially fond of him, and the less said about the NKOTB marketing machine the better. =========== From: DONTHEN To: NAME Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/15/90 18:35:35 Message Number 6386 Different part of the Bible have continually been used throughout the ages to support two different sides of arguments with no middle ground, such as abortion or creationism-vs.-evolution. And furthermore, very few people on here have actually been quoting the Bible per se; we have been talking about the overall way it has been used throughout history. If the way Christians interpret the Bible differs from group to group, it is neither the non-Christians' fault nor the Bible's (or its writers'). If a group says they believe one way but consistently live as if they do not, what is an impartial observer to decide they /truly/ believe -- what they profess, or what they actually do? =========== From: DONTHEN To: NAME Subject: Catholicism Date & Time: 07/15/90 18:39:51 Message Number 6387 A lot of Catholics do read the Bible. A lot of non-Catholics are also blindly led by sheep, either in other Christian denominations, other religions or political movements. I've noticed Catholic-bashing is quite fashionable among Christians who don't follow that denomination, and there are certainly things in the Catholic belief system that other Christians could find questionable. There is also a tendency to blow the perceived negatives of Catholicism far out of proportion, and further, to respond to most challenges against Christianity's past actions by saying, "Yes, but that was the Catholics." Look around Christianity. All denominations have their good points and bad points. Many of the negatives I perceive in Christian actions originate in Southern Baptist churches just as often, if not more so, than Catholic ones. The argument, "Well, at least we didn't start the Inquisition" isn't a terribly good one for convincing an atheist to become a Protestant. He'll probably wonder why these groups that all claim to follow the same God and to know the One Truth spend as much time bashing each other as they do bashing non-Christians and telling their followers what in secular society is Good and Evil, and how anyone coming strictly from outside the Christian tradition can truly believe that /any/ of them are following a "God of Love." =========== From: TURTLE To: RAVEN Subject: Not SOMETHING Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:13:42 Message Number 6389 >...Turtle is no more anal retentive than Bart... ...and in fact is considerably less so, except when it comes to English grammar. Bart, for example, carefully places 3.5" disks in order, in little plastic sleeves, in the box; Turtle labels them with useless names and then loses them. Turtle and Bart have both been accused of having conservative views of magazine layout, though...utter slander! =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: computers Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:16:10 Message Number 6390 Hey, I'm back from Ft. Myers. Feel free to drop by sometime so we can do the scan thing in the Mac-lab place during the evening time. I'm not really planning to travel anywhere this week, although I didn't really plan to go to Ft. Lauderdale /last/ week so I guess we know what that's worth. =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:20:02 Message Number 6391 >Why, GOD decides what is moral or not... Not always. Every person carries with him his own set of beliefs that define what is or is not immoral (even people who claim not to). That doesn't mean that there is any code of morality that is universal or applies equally to everyone, though; it only becomes a problem when someone says "What you are doing [what you are listening, what you are watching, what you are saying, etc, etc, etc] is immoral, and if you don't stop I will force you to [torture you, kill you, etc, etc]." The only moral value that seems to be universal is that it is not immoral to murder people who disagree with your morality. =========== From: TURTLE To: ANGEL Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:24:07 Message Number 6392 I think the Southern Baptists will be dealing with the fallout from the Scopes Monkey Trial for more than 700 years, frankly; as a rule, Catholicism is about 700 years behind reality, and Fundamentalists are about 200 years behind Catholics. (Look at the number of Fundament- alists who /still/ try to force school districts to preach--er, teach-- the absurdity of "creation science"!) I never fail to be astounded how quickly people will disbelieve any evidence that disagrees with their own little worldview, even if the evidence is right before their eyes. Aristotle taught that a heavy object will fall faster than a light object, a belief which persisted for thousands of years despite tens of thousands of demonstrations that it isn't true. Of course, Aristotle also taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking--something which is only true of some people. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:32:05 Message Number 6393 I've agreed with you twice so far on this message chain...that's really disturbing, you know? Christians are generally even more annoying than conservatives; put "Christian" and "conservative" together, and you get Jessee Helmes. (Running off into the distance, hands over head; diving into bomb shelter...) (c) 1990 Anarchy Now, Inc. Disclamer: The message above contains hyperbole and is stated with tongue in cheek; any offense it may cause, to Christians, conservatives, or Jessee Helmes, is probably deserved. On the other hand, there does seem to be a grain of truth lurking hideously in there somewhere. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:37:34 Message Number 6394 [Actually, this is to the Specialist's unnamed friend] If one defines "success" as "peace, love, and joy"; and one defines the "Kingdom of God" as "peace, love, and joy," it still doesn't follow that all success comes from the kingdom of God. A correlary to that belief would be that people who don't believe in the Christian god, or in any sort of god at all, would not be capable of finding peace, love, and joy; this is demonstrably not true. The only two people I have ever met in my life who I can honestly say are truly, deeply happy are not Christians; I have, however, met a large number of faithful, loyal, devout, and miserable Christians. Faith in God is neither necessary to nor sufficient for peace, love, and joy. Saying that all good works come from God would likewise seem to say that someone who does not believe in God cannot either be a good person or perform good works, which is also not true. Just as there are Christians who are selfish, mean-spirited, vicious, and inconsiderate, there are atheists and non-Christian theists who are kind, compassionate, caring, and loving people. Would your friend consider that a contradiction? =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Yup Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:49:23 Message Number 6396 Hey, that isn't such a bad idea! Maybe I can find somewhere to get some of these old 'pooters stuffed and mounted on wood plaques so I can hang 'em up over the hearth..."That North Star Horizon over there was one tough critter. Tracked the blamed thing for three weeks before I cornered it in this blind canyon..." =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: -A/R- Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:51:58 Message Number 6397 I see a visit to Sarasota Electronics in my future...figure this Qubie's giving me enough weird problems to qualify for a Government grant. It doesn't seem to get into the spirit of 1200 baud with the proper enthusiasm, for some reason; it won't talk to a few 1200 bauds, but it also doesn't seem to have any way to tune the carrier. Oh, well...maybe it's a technical problem, maybe it's just surrendered to the dark side of the Carrier... =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Earth? Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:09:01 Message Number 6398 I have a TI-99/4A keyboard...it's really a nice keyboard (good feel, good layout, CONTROL and FUNCTION keys, which is almost as strange as CONTROL and ALT on the same keyboard), but it isn't anywhere close to ASCII. It uses some really bizzare matrix encoding that passes the row and a multiplexed BCD of the column out to the edge of the keyboard (yep, it's got a decimal-to-BCD encoder IC on the board!) Pity; I'd like to use it in something. =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: computers Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:13:22 Message Number 6399 >...I have several programs for the IBM that will convert almost any- >thing to anything... Sometimes you have to be kinda careful with 'em, though. A couple programs seem to have trouble going from .MAC to .GIF; they convert it to /something/, all right, but they seem to mess up the header information so's you can't tell how many lines the resulting .GIF is. It doesn't matter to a lot of IBM ShowGIF programs 'cause they get that information from the file itself, but GIF viewers for other machines can't deal with a GIF whose header is messed up very well. You end up seeing things like "WINNOW.GIF: File resolution 4096x200, 2 colors." =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:18:59 Message Number 6400 >If you are not part of the Judeo-Christian environment then the bumper >sticker obviously does not affect you. Not really. It still makes a statement about non-Christians; it implies that they are /not/ forgiven. If you don't buy into Christianity, you probably don't believe it, of course, but it's still kind of obnoxious to be told "we're both imperfect, but at least I'm forgiven and you're not, so there." A bumper sticker that says "Soccer players have leather balls" makes no statement, expressed or implied, about people who don't play soccer. =========== From: TURTLE To: NAME Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:22:19 Message Number 6401 >...it [the Bible] does talk about when a man dies he will either go >to heaven or hell, immediately. The Bible does not talk about Hell, particularly as a place where the condemned go. The closest it gets is saying that the unrighteous will be cast into a lake of fire after the battle at Armageddon. In fact, most Fundamentalist sects don't believe in Hell at all; they will tell you the wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal torment. (The concept of hell has always given me problems with popular Christianity; I for one WILL NOT worship a diety who sees the necessity of keeping a private torture chamber for his mistakes.) =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:26:17 Message Number 6402 >...why don't people sometimes listen to the MUSIC, and not the words... Because the music and the words together make the song; you can't listen to one totally exclusively of the other. Besides, the type of people who write inane drivel of the type JonBoy was describibg usually aren't any musical Maestros, either. =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:28:08 Message Number 6403 >...we have the right to choose what religion, or none, that we want... That doesn't help much, because what if the religion you choose has as a central tenant that people who subscribe to other faiths should be killed, or people who subscribe to other faiths will certainly die unless you use anmy means at your disposal to convert them? Then a cornerstone of your faith becomes the belief that others do /not/ have the right to choose their own religion; so do you have the right to behave in accordance with yours? =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:41:30 Message Number 6404 >Metal has been under so much criticism for lack of finesse'...that now >we see many groups throwing in a token acoustic piece... That's a REALLY annoying statement...and belief. Metallica, to take the example you dismissed so lightly, has ALWAYS played acoustic music, and in fact every member of that particular group has a degree in formal music theory. "Thrash" metal is a sub-set of heavy-metal music in general, and it's rather unfair to make sweeping statements like the one you just made and to judge all of metal by the thrash you hear pouring out of oversized stereos belonging to young children. You also didn't address the central point, which is that there is a good deal of meaningful, interesting, and impressive music being generated by heavy-metal groups--and not just as a "passing fad" (Dio has performed heavy metal with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra--when he was with Rainbow in 1976. Yngwie Malmsteen writes long, elaborate instrumental pieces, inspired by some of the classical masters he's dedicate a great deal of time to studying, and it's 1990. Fourteen years is a hell of a long passing fad.) Yes, the percentage of good heavy metal is very small; the percentage of good music of ANY kind is very small. The fact that 90% of it is crap doesn't make the 10% that's good any less good. =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:51:22 Message Number 6405 >But he always points out women... Would you rather discuss the New Kids on the Block, perhaps? Frankly, I wouldn't. =========== From: TURTLE To: ETC... Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:53:36 Message Number 6406 Count me in on that! Mandatory recycling is about the only thing I can think of to get some people to recycle, if the program is designed (and enforced) correctly. =========== From: CRYSTAL To: JONBOY Subject: orphans Date & Time: 07/16/90 06:31:05 Message Number 6408 No that's not the problem, the problem is when we get more hardware then I want. "But we can't have too much" says Turtle. So we live like this. I pretend to have only what I see in the living room and what is in the utility room. Turtle can tell you what we really have bacause he goes up in the attic. I do not. So you see. If he can get it in the apt. before I know it is here then I don't complain. But when I find hardware on my doorstep (i.e. PDP 11 23), yes I get a little upset. Software I don't usually mind so much, espcially if it is useful. But if you would see all the computers and clutter you would understand what a *GEM* Turtle's girlfriend really is. :) * CRYSTAL * =========== From: DONTHEN To: TURTLE Subject: -A/R- Date & Time: 07/16/90 08:24:38 Message Number 6410 The Qubie combined with the blasted Migent modem Raven has let me borrow is a match made in Hell. I dial up your number and 75% of the time, the modem just sits there listening to the carrier, and I have to try to jump back to terminal mode and start slamming RETURN... half of the time, the modem transmits it anyway (even though it hasn't transmitted a CONNECT 1200) and PBBS starts, apparently over the modems' objections. Anyway, IMP itself is pretty nice. Very CP/M (it's a command-driven terminal program like MODEM7 is), but powerful; it lacks DTERM's or FastTerm's script capability, but does just about everything else, well, more elegantly than the other two combined. It's also the only term program I've seen that pays attention to 2400 bps modems' return codes; you can leave it set at 2400 bps, and if you call a 1200 bps board the terminal will drop down to match it. Incidentally, whoever wrote the Superbrain overlay remapped the command key from ESCape to the SB's "HERE IS" button. It's nice to give the thing a use in life, but I wish he had let me know ahead of time. Another thing interesting.. IMP implements transfers the way JMODEM thinks it does. If you start out with 1024-byte blocks, it will keep track of the # of bad blocks; 4 consecutively, or a ratio of bad to good over a certain number (which is different for each baud rate), will make it drop down to 128-byte blocks. =========== From: DONTHEN To: TURTLE Subject: computers Date & Time: 07/16/90 08:31:58 Message Number 6411 > You end up seeing things like "WINNOW.GIF: File resolution 4096x200, > 2 colors." Now, now. It was actually 1063x200, I believe.... =========== From: KEN OBER To: DONTHEN Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:36:35 Message Number 6415 George Michael has one good point -- His CD has some of the most amazing Surround Sound effects I have ever heard on a CD.... =========== From: KEN OBER To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:43:33 Message Number 6416 But New Kids On The Block are /much/ worse than any of the POP women singers out today -- BTW -- What do you and Donthen think of POP songers like Tina Turner? =========== From: KEN OBER To: TURTLE Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:44:35 Message Number 6417 Gee, mandatory recycling....Can we say Marxist? Communist, maybe? While we're at it, let's ban RAP and HEAVY METAL music because it is a disgrace to our contry -- And, U know, those Chineese people smell funny -- Let's gas 'em along with the Blacks, because the Black people are the cause of our Drug problem, you know....Then we'll have a perfect country -- U know, le's get a big army an "help" the other countries in the world be perfect just like us.... Sound familiar? =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: DONTHEN Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:57:40 Message Number 6418 hat? My question was not "could you understand HEART's lyrics" but I was incredulous that you could actually understand Heavy Metal lyrics. And the song does not glamorize one nighstands, it is about this chick who's husband can't give her a baby! Listen more closely next time. Of course, you do have a point about reaching for rhymes...I think that the song reaches, Period. Not as good as thier bad animals album. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Self-control Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:02:45 Message Number 6419 About controling (poeplesown feelings (Lighting glitch) About controlling (peoples own feelings... Good point. And I think another nasty word enters in here...censorship. One man's opion...Jim Swaggarts...can cause censorship. Ifhe thinks that "his people" shouldn't support something or nay, should "down" it, then look out...you got the Vocal Minority on your ass. (Man, I hate that lousy hypocryte!) =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: BEATLE Subject: Moral/Immoral/A Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:08:35 Message Number 6420 Moral or not moral is determined by public opinion. If more people think that something is moral than not, then it becomes moral. If you do something which societ considers immoral (like molestation) and it is also against the law, hang on! Let's take something like homosexuality. Now, you and I (and every body else) think that it's perverse. But, since there are a lot of homos out there, and a lot of people whare too sick to know what's normal and what a't and a lot of politicians who are wimps, it's legal. Of course, this proves my point that jsut because it's legal, doesn't mean that it's moral. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: DONTHEN Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:17:17 Message Number 6421 Lemme get this straight...you think that it'samoral for a woman to leave one lover to boff another guy, but you condone homosexuality? What is the difference? D...whether she was being amoral or simply subscribes to a belief system D>that considers using both strangers and mates as sexual playthings D>perfectly fine. No, I don't think so. Now what was your point? What is the difference between multiple lovers for a woman or for a man? So wat? If she didn't, she'd be monogamous, right? She'd be marrie (presumably to a man). But homosexuals do the same thing...multiple lovers...(well they used to...hehehehe.) But I still ask you...what's the difference between a hetro man/woman and a Homo man/woman as far as multiple lovers (strangers or friends?) =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:27:54 Message Number 6422 JB>Confusing assholes like Swaggert with Christians. What's the difference? =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Earth? Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:29:59 Message Number 6423 JB> We eat Wings (buffalo that is) Ah, something we agree on! TNT-wet...Ice tea...Fries...Yowza! =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:41:16 Message Number 6424 JB>Why would another person's self-percieved superiority get under your JB>skin? Because they are NOT! And they think that thier religion makes them that way! And it does nNOT! JB>Same kind of useless bitchin about how rich people "waste" thier JB>money...i.e. you are inserting yourself into a situation that isn't JB>even applicable. If you are not part of the Judeo-Christian JB>environment then the bumper sticker obviously does not affect you. This whole thread has been "useless bitchin"! And that bumper sticker affects everyone who sees it, bub. Same as Shit Happens. But, those freaks caused pressure and now I can't have that bumper sticker anymore. So, I could care less how another bumper sticker might make them react. I wish we could censor them, too. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: BEATLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:53:36 Message Number 6425 B>One thing I have really noticed about religious people; those of us B>who don't really go for religion, or those fo us who question it, B>seem to be more open minded and intelligent than those who make a B>deal out of telling us to believe... WHew! Kinda superior there, don'tcha think? I wouldn't say more intelligent, but open minded, yes...but that's because religion sets certain boundaries about what you can think on certain things...like witchcraft, or the supernatural. Religion explains these things as evil (satan's work). Intelligent? I dunno...maybe you are stereo- typing your basic hardworking southern hick, who usually are brought up with some sort of religion. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: ANGEL Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:03:19 Message Number 6426 A>Hey, if doesn't have to be in the Bible to be codified by Christian A>religions. So, like, what are you saying? That the bible has nothing to do with Christian religion? That Catholic preiests just make up stuff out of the blue? "Hmmm...purgatory...yeah, that's it! and, and, you have to PRAY to get them out! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket! No...no, *I* have to pray for you, Yeah! Of course, this will cost you a minimal donation, but, I can't garantee that they will get out the first prayer, I MIGHT have to pray, ah, twice...or maybe three times, who knows? ...yeah, that's the ticket, yeah...." =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: THRUD Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:09:41 Message Number 6427 Thrud? From where did you get your handle? =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: DONTHEN Subject: Pop Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:19:33 Message Number 6428 D>...George Michael... Broke up with his boyfriend, causing the dissolution of WHAM! D>...New Kids on the Block Who are probably more interested in each other than any of the MIllions of teeny boppers who like them... =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: DONTHEN Subject: Catholicism Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:28:26 Message Number 6429 I don't want to quote the whole message, but wow, that was really elegant and elloquent! It was quite some reading, but well worth it. Again, I must simply say, well said. Of course, I'm sure that NAME will have something to say.... =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:44:52 Message Number 6430 T>...I for one WILL NOT worship a diety who sees the necessity of T>keeping a private torture chamber for his mistakes... Ah, well spoken...or a diety who is petulant, either. =========== From: THRUD To: NAME Subject: Catholicism Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:58:41 Message Number 6431 Jeez, I don't want to have to defend Catholocism - but you're making statements and assumptions that just aren't valid. Saying Catholics don't read the Bible or don't think for themselves is like saying all blacks (oops, African-Americans) like watermelon and all Jews are rich - these are narrow, unthinking pre-judgements of vast numbers of people. Didja ever notice that no matter how much you disagree with a family member, or religion or whatever, when an outsider attacks ya just have to defend your own? Strang species we belong to. =========== From: THRUD To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: handle Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:12:30 Message Number 6432 I found my handle in the mythology section of the St. Pete Public Library. When I was 14-16 I spent days in there reading whole shelves. Sci Fi, war, mythology, whatever. Anyhow, I took tons of confusing notes for some unknown reason - just whatever struck me as interesting. Well, Vafthrudner was a Nordic frost giant that asked everyone who tried to cross his land a question - if they got it right they passed, if wrong they died by the club. The only exception was Odin, who got the question wrong, but wasn't so easy to kill. So i used Vafthrudner as a CB handle (way back in 76) for about 5 minutes - nobody could get it right, so I shortened it to THRUD. Also my gramps was from Denmark. Now aren't you sorry you asked? =========== From: THRUD To: ANGEL Subject: nice bear Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:22:53 Message Number 6433 The Norseman was pleased to hear Angel speak so glowingly of her ship. This was an odd place indeed, but at least there was one soul who shared his love of the sea and skye - well, two, counting Gjolp. Who, incidently, had taken to examining her surroundings. The huge bear went from one person to the next in the bar - giving out a little whimper when she caught Turtle's scent. At last she stopped at the fox's foot - well, actually even on all fours she was chest hish er, chest high to the fox - and emitted a low growl. She looked at Vafthrudner as if for permission...... "No Gjolp....come here girl." The titan pointed at the floor near his feet. Turning back to Angel he said "Her families name is Ursa Maritmus you know - she's born to the sea." Just then the food arrived - it didn't look much like reindeer, but it was burnt on the outside and raw inside - cooked perfectly. The massive Dane tore off a chunk for himself and gave the remainder to the polar bear, who seemed quite pleased with it. "So, young lady, what do you propose to do with your fine ship? She's not just a pretty toy, is she? Have you ever sailed the North Sea......or......Skagerrak?" =========== From: JONBOY To: DONTHEN Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:36:35 Message Number 6434 Read it again - I was referring to the acoustic number. To clarify - a lot of groups feel like the soulfull acoustic number is a gotta have on their albumn - like the wailing lead solos that you hear in "normal" rock-n-roll. Personally I thing that many of the solos should be left out as they are not there as a support for the tune but rather a showcase for the guitar hero to show us how fast he can burn off a scale (* yawn *). The "socially meaningful" acoustic number is approaching this point also. Face it - most rock-n-roll bands are groupies themselves - look how many wanna-bes Van Halen and Led Zepplin spawned. This is why I call it a fad. There are genuine tunes out there (U2) that are really the product of a social consiousness but most are simply a train of brown-nosers. =========== From: JONBOY To: KEN OBER Subject: computers Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:42:20 Message Number 6435 yes - no problem. =========== From: JONBOY To: RUFUS Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:43:42 Message Number 6436 Well - I don't HAVE a TV because I personally believe them to be the devils tool! (heheheheheh) Actually - I just hate them and have much better things to do with my time than park in front of a TV yech! The best thing that ever happened to the TV was VCR's. At least you can rent a decent movie. If I EVER buy another TV (why when I can get an 85 megger for the same price or half of a Fender Strat?) it will be at the same time I get a VCR. A Civilized JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: RUFUS Subject: Calling... Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:47:07 Message Number 6437 Did you ever patch ProDOS for the Franklin? =========== From: JONBOY To: DONTHEN Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:48:41 Message Number 6438 Hey - they're successful and rich & they give the zit-rockers something to spend their money on and get their hormones all fired up. They have A PLACE IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS (booming voice dubbed in with thunder). JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: DONTHEN Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:51:01 Message Number 6439 That's mainifest bullshit! Everyone in the world would be a pitiful hypocrite if that is truly the way the cards fall. #1 what is the definition of "living a belief"? Should you dedicate your life & funds in the quest for a free south Africa since you made a stand on your board that the adjective "sand-nigger" offended you more than anything else? Would you be living a lie since you would not be willing to go that far? Truth is we are quite capable of perceiving high moral standards but still acknowledging that we can fall short of the IDEALS. Let's not get black and white here but rather leave room for being human. JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: DONTHEN Subject: Catholicism Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:56:05 Message Number 6440 Typically I find that "outsiders" do a far better of job of laying the "infighting" rap on Christian denominations. Truth is they agree on the most of the high points and it is trivial stuff that actually comprise the various schisms that you percieve as Christianity. By definitian a Christian is one who believes in Jesus the Christ as the risen Son of God who died for mankinds cumulative sins. No more no less. When you get into the "mechanics" of actually being a Christian then you have various beliefs as people try to make sense of the various writings. The Church has always been defined as the corporate body of belivers and has not a thing to do with a building or any group in particular. The groups that Christians traditionally do battle with are a) non-believers that feel theirs is the One True Way (tm) and Shame on Christians for being such back-water louts that they actually think that they are entitled to their beliefs when Right Thinkers can see the world evolved as a cosmic crap game and B) those people that feel they have a strangle hold on the kingdom of heaven and they hold the only key (fringe groups like the ones that dug in in Arizona). Most Christian groups have many dealings with one another at both the community and national levels and have multi-denominational meetings. JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:07:23 Message Number 6441 Actually recent studies into weak forces show that indeed heavier objects fall faster than lighter ones. The Greeks also had a crude atomic theory. JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:09:45 Message Number 6442 Ok - enuf of THAT stuff too. Has it ever occurred to anyone that there are TWO explanations for this behavior - neither of which involves a stupid and misrepresented belief that God is the source of all good? 1) Psychologists have a saying that there is NO such thing as altruism and that all "good" or selfless acts can be attributed to a desire to forward the interests of the "altrusistic" person. Could it be that the persons are simply participating in a "Holier than thou" contest whereby the "winner" is the most percieved holyman? Hmmmm? 2) Since the "Born Again" Christian is a "new creature" shaped by the Holy Spirit - can he not in all honesty within the framewortk of his beliefs say that because of hios relationship with God and because of God's influence in his life that the good works are possible and thus give credit where he honestly believes it is due? Let's see a little less mindless slamminmg and a little more thought... Iconoclastic Jonboy =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Yup Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:17:15 Message Number 6443 Really! A Horizon - my Advantage almost had the network server that went along with it but some damned Iranian (just a description - no racial slur intended) bought it for parts!!!!! I BEGGED him to let me trade him a couple of other systems that had "better parts" so I could have a networked MP/M system with 3 machines - sighhhh.. T'wasn't to be.... I really HATE auctions!!! You meet the biggest jerks! JonBoy =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Earth? Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:20:48 Message Number 6444 There's a million articles to interface it to a Sinclair/Timex doorwedge-posing-as-a-computer. Works good! =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: computers Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:22:07 Message Number 6445 Righto! I have a bazillion combinations of graphics conversions that I use with each other _ I usually go from PCX or TIFF to GIF and MAC to one of those. =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:23:51 Message Number 6446 I was referring to the "emotional content" of the folks that would be morally offended by the sexual innuendo. IE a giant stereotype of the "typical" Christian family out for a Sunday drive. Speaking of perceptions - then what about bumper stickers that proclaim: "Of I drive like I own the road - I do!" "If you don't like the way I drive call this number 1-800-EAT-SHIT etc etc? Isn't that a rather rude and self centered group of statements that imply you have NO rights as far as they are concerned and your comfort and safety on the roads is of secondary importance to their supreme indifference? Of course I don't let them bother me! And letting a Christian bumper sticker bother you is an indication that you are somehow (to use shrink jargon) sensitized to these type of messages - kinda like the mythical red flag. This would put the "problem" in your backyard. =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:31:31 Message Number 6447 Kind of like a central tenet that since you don't smoke and it has been proved in some study that smoking is dangerous and you belong to a religious group known as nonsmoker fanaticus then it is your sacred duty to deprive others of the right to such a nasty habit in all public places? Point is - such behavior isn't restricted to RELIGION - I prefer to believe instead that everyone has the latent capability to be a 1st class ASSHOLE. =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:36:01 Message Number 6448 Metallica DOES play good music and I was using THEM as the counterpoint to those that produce the token piece I was referring to - maybe it came out wrong - I can't find my tape (now I'm mad!) so I can't remember the name of that tune that most everyone knows. I will disagree with you about Dio - gothic pretentious awful wailing stuff the last one (something about the wolves) I heard had a very talented guitarist that was a newcomer and caught my attention but not enough. Malmsteen has been described even by his admiring peers as "Mr Bach Rock" for the heavy classical influences. However - why all at Mach 3 and climbing? Sad to say that a lot of his stuff is good but I don't feel very thoughtful. I find myself more often listening to New Age simply because there I can hear something that while maybe not new - it is fresh. =========== From: JONBOY To: CRYSTAL Subject: orphans Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:42:26 Message Number 6449 Ahh buhleaves Brethren!!! Amen this woman is RIGHTEOUS and that heathen computerphile needs to change his ways!!! Repent before the attic falls down from the combined weight of dinosaur computers and the secret leak in the roof! Repent! =========== From: JONBOY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:47:17 Message Number 6450 Careful or I'll add yer name to the end and AGREE. =========== From: JONBOY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:48:48 Message Number 6451 Wrong Buckwheat - the "freaks" that got those stickers banned were the mental midgets that figured if they could get away with "Shit happens" then they could get away with "Have a nice Fucking Day ASSHOLE" (yes I saw one of those). They only have theirself to blame because as I believ YOU pointed out - when the majority says its immoral - they can make it stick. =========== From: JONBOY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:52:01 Message Number 6452 And you , sir, are stereotyping southern with hick. Ignorance knows no bounds as I am sure you are aware.. =========== From: JONBOY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:53:37 Message Number 6453 Hey - yer petulant and ain't even close to diety status... =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:44:04 Message Number 6455 I try not to think about Tina Turner at all, whenever possible. =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:44:48 Message Number 6456 >Sound familiar? Yeah, it's kinda the same reasoning the NRA uses when it says if we enforce a mandatory waiting period before you buy a gun, then by next Tuesday the tanks will be rolling down Tamiami Trail. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Moral/Immoral/A Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:51:34 Message Number 6457 >Moral or immoral is determined by society's opinion. No, I'm sorry, that simply doesn't work as a definition of "moral." Social opinion will determine what is socially acceptable, not what is "moral;" it would be difficult to support the premiss that the white minority regime in South Africa or the extermination of Jews in the Third Reich is "moral," regardless of the fact that public opinion supported both activities. You also seem to be pretty convinced that homosexuality (and anyone who's sick enough to believe that people' private sexual practices are their own business, presumably including myself) is immoral; if you were to find suddenly that a majority of the public disagreed with you, would it suddenly become moral? By saying that the sole determining factor in morality is public acceptance, that' exactly what you would have to say. Incidentally, why /do/ you feel homosexuality is immoral, anyway? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:56:30 Message Number 6458 >What's the difference between a hetero man/woman and a Homo [sic] man/ >woman as far as multiple lovers (strangers or friends?) None. Do you believe that there are no monogamous homosexual relation- ships? If so, perhaps you should look past trite stereotypes before you try to hold /any/ opinion on the subject, pro or con. Homos (what a... quaint word!) can be faithful to one another too, shocking as that may be to discover, hmm? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 00:02:04 Message Number 6459 SPECIALIST: Whew! Kinda superior there, doncha think? --- SPECIALIST: Homos are...perverse. Whew! Kinda superior there, doncha think? I wouldn't necessarily say that people who are not particulalry relig- ious are inherently more open-minded about people who are; they are simply open-minded about different things. Extreme Fundamentalists as a group do seem to be more narrow-minded as a whole than their less enlightened brethren, but an absence of faith does not imply an open mind--and vice versa. I can think of some relatively irreverent people who could use a broader outlook... =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Frustration... Date & Time: 07/17/90 00:10:01 Message Number 6460 >Ah, well spoken. Dammit, stop agreeing with me! This is getting TOTALLY out of hand. Ummmm...Gun control! Gun control! =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Catholicism Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:11:15 Message Number 6461 I dunno...I have a large quantity of propaganda from a large number of Christian sects (from the Assemblies of God to the Southern Baptists, neither of which is terribly "cultish") that claim Roman Catholicism is anything from an innocent pawn of the Devil's to the embodiment of Satan's church on Earth. These people are Christian, yes, but the bit about "Christian brotherhood" seems to have eluded them. In general, it seems as though fairly trivial differences in belief will cause more problems between groups than will profound differences; you don't see Muslims and Shintoists going at one another with the same enthusiasm as Shi'ites and Sunnis, and conservative Fundamentalists seem to hate Catholics with a ferver that surpasses their hatred of, say, Buddhists. That sort of behavior isn't conducive to convincing an objective ob- server that Christianity is The Truth; and it does kind of make one wonder why if this is in fact the living church of an omnipotent god it doesn't hang together any better than all the other religions wandering around together. It is the religion of the one true living god, and that one true living god can't even keep his own house in order, neh? Not an impressive edifice. =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:18:35 Message Number 6462 Grr. Allow me to clarify: Aristotle taught that a heavy object falls with a speed directly related to its mass, so a 6-gram weight would drop six times as quickly as a one-gram weight. He also taught that women have fewer teeth than men, but somehow never quite got around to counting 'em. =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:27:25 Message Number 6463 Tsk, tsk, tsk. I'm sorry, but there are in fact people who believe, quite literally, that no man acting on his own can ever do anything good, period; /all/ goodness comes from god. It is one thing to attribute your own actions to the Holy Spirit working through you; it's quite another to gaze heavenward and say "Thank you, Lord" when someone yanks you from the path of a speeding car, and then arrogantly tell the person who's just saved your ass "What do you mean, thank /you?/ That wasn't your action, it was God working through you!" (NB: This is an actual case history, not a hypothetical example.) The "god is responsible for all good" mentality diminishes everyone to the level of a helpless automaton that can't do anything right, ever, without the direct and immediate control of god. That's an annoyingly arrogant attitude that quite simply sets my teeth on edge. =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Yup Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:32:33 Message Number 6464 Funny thing about the Horizon...I just ran into someone on a local BBS who left me E-mail saying he'd seen a message of mine about the Horizon on the Newtowne Centre Z-Node (a dedicated Z-System support board) and that he had two of 'em running...one of 'em running Z-System, and the other running a weird MP/M hack with five terminals. Mine's up in the attic collecting dust...I can't find a CP/M boot disk (and can't get HorizonDOS to do anything useful)...what I wouldn't give for a CP/M boot disk for it. 'Course, it /would/ have to be on a hard- sectored disk...I know, I'm picky... =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Bumper annoyanc Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:37:28 Message Number 6465 >Isn't that a rather rude and self centered group of statements >that imply you have NO rights as far as they are concerned and your >comfort and safety on the roads is of secondary importance to their >supreme indifference? Yes. And you're right...self-righteousness is a particular "button" of mine. I tend to see self-righteous individuals as "those hysterical fanatics who burn books and scream at people who wear T-back bikinis in public, and who'd gladly exterminate all the vermin who don't see the light of their moral superiority if they had even half a chance." Hearing about how Mrs. Rose Fillmore of Kentucky successfully banned "Catcher in the Rye" and "Charlotte's Web" from her local library because they teach the way of Satan and corrupt the children causes me to see red, so I kinda get carried away whenever I see /anyone/ tell me "You know, I'm a Christian so I'm better than you." =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Rock-ola Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:47:26 Message Number 6466 The only Dio you've heard is his latest album? Pity...I'm a Dio fan, and even I'd have to agree that "Lock Up the Wolves" is far from being the best album to ever hit the record stores...in fact, most of Dio's solo stuff with the exception of his first two albums has been not quite the pinnacle of human artistic achievement--and even the first two albums have a few tracks that could gag a goat. You want to hear what the man is actually CAPABLE of, though, check out some of his stuff with Black Sabbath (what little there is of it--he wasn't there very long) and Rainbow. On a different note, what sort of New Age (God I hate that name) do you listen to? I was hooked for a while on Tangerine Dream and Shadowfax (the latter being somewhere between New Age and jazz depending on who you ask)... =========== From: TURTLE To: JONBOY Subject: Really Immoral Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:54:16 Message Number 6467 >They only have theirself to blame... Censorship is ALWAYS immoral, no matter how justifiable it may seem to ANYONE. The mental midgets who got the stickers banned really seem to believe that a child who sees naughty-naughties on someone's bumper is gonna grow up to be a rapist and child molestor, or worse yet stop going to Sunday school--NUTS! Banning the stickers hasn't accomplished any worthwhile goals or saved our society from being overrun by evil heathens bent on ravaging everything America stands for, but it has curtailed people's freedom of expression for no particular reason-- and that's wrong no matter which way you cut it. =========== From: GEORGE WILLIAMS To: THRUD Subject: nice bear Date & Time: 07/17/90 02:19:23 Message Number 6468 But then, the ship sunk, and they all drowned a wet death. the end. =========== From: GEORGE WILLIAMS To: ALL Subject: coming fucking Date & Time: 07/17/90 03:00:36 Message Number 6473 Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating co =========== From: TURTLE To: * ALL * Subject: Mr. Williams Date & Time: 07/17/90 04:10:36 Message Number 6476 As you can see from the preceeding message, we had a royal Grade A asshole abuse this system last night. Mr. Williams has successfully put my belief in "open" bulletin boards and my opposition to censorship to the test. I did, in fact, delete six messages he posted; each was an exact duplicate of the preceeding post. I have no idea who George Williams is or why he chose to vomit all over the message base. I have attempted unsuccessfully to reach him at the number he listed in the userlog to find out what his problem is. At any rate, the man has shaken my faith in the BBS users' community; I have acted as a sysop for two different boards, and in the two or three years I've been operating a computer BBS this is the first time anyone has abused my policy of totally open access, but it's still rather distressing. I apologise for Mr. Williams' unacceptable behavior and sincerely hope he will not return. If for some reason he chooses to call this board again, I trust he will behave less the part of the asshole, since I would profoundly regret the necessity to institute a new-user- verification policy for the sake of one individual. =========== From: DONTHEN To: KEN OBER Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 13:47:05 Message Number 6477 I can't speak for Turtle; I happen to like Tina Turner. My objection to "pop" isn't with a song's popularity, or with it not being hard rock, or what-have-you... it's when a song is musically and/or lyrically a wasteland that I get disturbed. I don't mind electronic music, but I do not like tinny mechanical rhythms tracked under essentially meaningless words... it has nothing to do with, say, what radio station is most likely to play a song. I still like John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High," even though it's got nary an electronic instrument in it, because it's musically nice (if not overwhelming) and the lyrics show a fair amount of thought, not just "what rhymes with X" construction. (This song gets dumped on by a whole lot of people who seem to be trying to stick it in the same class as, say, Chris Cross's "Sailing," but I bet almost none of them could say exactly what's going on in "Rocky Mountain High"....) =========== From: DONTHEN To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/17/90 13:53:02 Message Number 6478 I am aware the singer had a child by the person she's speaking of, and she was unable to conceive with her husband. My objection is that, in my view, she used the "stranger" as well as her husband and left at least one of them miserable -- two, if her husband finds out. It WAS a one-night stand, and the song is painting it in pretty, "isn't this an absolutely wonderful night we've had" pictures without even touching subjects like, well, how she's using this guy, how she really doesn't care for him except as a lust object, what his feelings might be when she leaves before he wakes up, or anything about her husband at all. =========== From: DONTHEN To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/17/90 13:57:16 Message Number 6479 What is the similarity? In one case you are describing two people of the same sex attracted to one another -- which, despite the stereotype you seem to be operating from, does NOT mean they have to be promiscuous or exist in a non-monogamous relationship; in another you are describing one partner cheating on the other one, i.e., having sex with someone else without her ostensible "lover" at least knowing about it. I am full aware of your prejudices against sexual activity that doesn't fit your definition of what is "moral" and "immoral," but that is not the issue at hand. A relationship built on trust is the same regardless of who is involved; one built on lies is the same regardless of who is involved. The lying is what I am objecting to, not the sexual activity in and of itself, whether you are talking about homosexuality, group sex, or what-have-you... I am of the belief that if everyone involved is a consenting adult, it's their business, even if it's business I don't like and would never be involved in myself. But I believe we've already went through this. I believe that a person's sexual life, as long as it doesn't demonstrably harm others, is their business (in fact, that can be said of their entire life in general); you believe that if a person's life doesn't fit your idea of moral purity, it makes that person worthless scum, correct? =========== From: DONTHEN To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:05:56 Message Number 6480 A lot of what's in Christian lore really isn't in the Bible to begin with. Purgatory most definitely is not. =========== From: DONTHEN To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Pop Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:07:41 Message Number 6481 Hey, I've seen George Michael's girlfriend (the one in the video for "I Want Your Sex," in fact). Personally, I think Georgie left Andrew Ridgely because Ridgely has no discernible talent whatsoever, but even if their relationship was more than business, I could see why he'd leave Andy, or just about anyone else, for her. =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: definitions Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:13:23 Message Number 6482 I am not talking about becoming a monk, I am talking about acting in ways which are directly contrary to your stated belief systems. That crosses the bounds of "leaving room for being human" and moves over into blatant hypocrisy. And I stand by my "manifest bullshit": Christianity has a long history of saying one thing and doing quite another. The Crusades, the Inquisitions, and the centuries of witch-hunts in Europe were not too bloody "Christian" in my book. Going up to a village of pagans and saying "We worship the God of Love. You do it, too, or we'll kill you" would sure qualify as a direct contradiction to someone who wasn't actively trying to defend the Christian tradition. "If ever the book which I am not going to be write is to be written, it will be a full apology for the acts of Christiandom. We have shouted the name of Christ and enacted the service of Moloch." - C.S. Lewis =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: Catholicism Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:18:20 Message Number 6483 I know what the definition of Christian is. I also know some Episcopalians who have been told, point blank, by Baptist ministers that they are going to Hell because they do not believe the Bible is the literal Word of God. Personally, the last church service I voluntarily attended was a funeral for a friend of mine. Upon entering her Catholic church, we were all handed programs bearing a note that non-Catholics were requested not to partake of communion until "doctrinal differences" between Catholicism and Protestant denominations were resolved. This sort of horseshit may be more damaging to organized Christian religion rather than Christianity itself, but I have been lectured by several people from varying denominations on the importance of not being a loner, i.e., if you're not a member of a church group you're missing a whole lot of Neat Stuff (or you're not really a Christian, depending on which denomination you ask). At any rate, this nonsense is part-and-parcel of Christianity, for practical purposes. You can argue all you want about it not touching the deep meaning, and you can be perfectly correct... but organized religion is probably one of the biggest contributing factors to atheism and agnosticism in the modern world. =========== From: DONTHEN To: ALL Subject: Stuff Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:33:33 Message Number 6484 About Mr. Williams... Turtle, I'd appreciate it if you deleted his one-line message in the Ranean Tales base, since I don't have the ability to do it myself. (I would also delete the message you left in the Up & Coming Stuff area from him; its "value" as an example of what he did may be counterbalanced by its obnoxiousness, not to mention the effect it might have on intelligent new users -- when I call a BBS and see a message like that that's been left in the base, I usually don't call back.) Also, with any luck, I'm going to be changing my handle to "Max" fairly shortly (the "Donthen" account will probably still be here for the storyboard, if Turtle lets it). =========== From: RUFUS To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 15:01:23 Message Number 6485 I'm watching less and less TV now a days. My only real fix at this time is "Stingray." I can't think of anything else I look forward to watching. Oh yes, "Grand" on NBC. I do keep the TV on late at night just to keep me company (I find it's smaller, and doesn't eat as much, a as Zot Gnop). =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Story (finally Date & Time: 07/17/90 15:21:32 Message Number 6488 I turn my attention from Angel to Wezip. 'Nice outfit' I think to myself as I look over the fox, who's now dragging the bartender to parts unknown. Just then I hear a growl of some large animal. I scan around the room and find a large white furry (and probably hungry) mass under a table. "E Gads," I proclaim. "Angel, I'm afraid your not covered by large arctic animals, or penguins for that matter," I say and move quickly towards Turtle, leaving Angel to tell of her new ship, and Sam angry at Angel. Putting on my used car salesman smile I say "I'll make you a deal Turtle." I hunch down next to Turtle and whisper, "Yes, I have been shot at lately. Yes, they'll probably try to shoot me again. If you help me from getting any more holes in my body, I'll help you get your TV station. Deal?" =========== From: BONGO-MAN To: ALL Subject: was a nice day Date & Time: 07/17/90 18:24:11 Message Number 6490 As the sun moves just slightly westward, but still remains blazing hot, a grim bearded figure, dressed in a flamboyant red-and-orange shirt and annoyingly bright peach-colored pants appears, framed in the doorway , a spectre of colors from the low end of the spectrum, a hideous conformist's nightmare. On his head, a worn and floppy beige fishing hat. In his hands--and bound on a strap round his neck--he holds a pair of small linked drums. "Ha ha!" he cries in a ringing voice. "This is the moment you have all awaited for so many long months! I have returned!" "A bold challenge, stranger," says Thrud, "such as I have rarely heard from humankinde. But could ye not donne an overcoat, for verily ye doth afflict my eyes with the loathesomme glare of frost blindness. Comme then, sit beside me and tell me sommewhat of yourself. Your name, perhaps." "Are you sure you want to know?" one of the bar old-timers observes-- perhaps it was Turtle, but he's busy these days and may have hired someone to make his wry comments for him. "Aye, and surely," says Thrud. "For I am big man, and can spare a bit of my time to learne of this most peculiar stranger." "Very well," proclaims the man in orange and peach as he takes a seat and the bar and plunks down his drums with a ringing slam. "I am Bongo-Man, and I have the power of Unbeatable Rhythm. Wezip, get me a Rumpleminze and orange juice! Say, there, frost giant, have you seen Brathburn lately? Since he had that affair with Surtur's wife I haven't talked to him much." "Pah," says Thrud. "I have no truck with fire giants. But no, foxlike fellow, mix not that frigid schnapps with a paltry juice! So cool and biting a drink is it, that my friend and I will have a flagon each, well chilled with blocks of ice that I carry here, broken from the berg of Hjarglarffersson, that Thor smashed in his foolish insolence when =========== From: BONGO-MAN To: ALL Subject: good day cont Date & Time: 07/17/90 18:43:48 Message Number 6491 (thrud describes a rumpleminze on the rocks to bongo-man) ...Thor in his insolence smashed when it floated, lovely and pure, through the aqueous ether to menace accursedde Bifrost." "I don't have any such ice," Wezip says matter-of-factly. "That," declares Thrud, "was the coldest ice I have ever held in my horny hand, and well would it suit the throat-splitting drink we now watch poured for us. Nay, fox-man, pour a flagon for each here who will have it; I feel generous!" "Anyway," says Bongo-Man, rapping on his drums for attention, "you must all be wondering where I've been for the last year and a half." "Not really," says the wisecracking bar old-timer who was suspected of being Turtle. "I traveled far in search of the man wearing the invisible earring, who I suspected of being the assassin who assaulted that...most curious unicorn who was here. But when I finally tracked him down, it seemed he was actually a trader named Cyrano Jones, who was trying to avoid Star- fleet by hiding in another dimension. It had something to do with a little creature just like this one." From his pocket, Bongo-Man produces a small, r ound, furry creature with no head, no arms, and no legs, that produces a soothing furry sound. "Geez," says Wezip, "don't bring a tribble into the bar! It took a year to get rid of them last time!" "Excuse me?" says Bongo-Man as he casually tosses the purring tribble into an inaccesible spot. "Did somebody say, 'blatant and annoying ripoff of an overdone idea?' Sorry, I wasn't listening. So anyway, I left Cyrano Jones alone and started to make my way back to this dimen- sion, but along the way I ran into a fellow by the name of Werdna, and ...excuse me," he says to Angel, "but I couldn't help noticing that you're wearing an eduzra skin?" "No," says Angel. "Oh-kay," says Bongo-Man. He grabs his flagon of Rumpleminze on the rocks and downs it. See you guys." Banging on his drums, he withdraws from the bar. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: KEN OBER Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/17/90 19:55:27 Message Number 6492 KO> Gee, mandatory recycling....Can we say Marxist? Communist, maybe? So, what do you have against recycling? Do you think it's a good idea? If you do, then the only way you are going to get people to do it is make it mandatory. There are too many people out there who just don't give a damn. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: THRUD Subject: handle Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:04:12 Message Number 6493 T>Now, arent' you sorry you asked? No, that was fascinating! Tell me, what was the question? And what was the correct answer? =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:13:51 Message Number 6494 JB> ...isn't that a rather rude and self centered group of statements Yes, and they bother the shit out of me too! But we weren't bashing those assholes, we were bashing religous people in general. And one thing...I deplore all this modern overspecialization. Religionis (scuze) Religious people are religious people, whether they are Jew, Cristian, Charismatic, Fundamentalist, what-have-you. You can usually group them all into one lump sum, because they all are going to Heaven, dontchaknow. (At least every one of them is convinced.) And they are usually judgemental...even to the least amout, you can't tell me that there's a religious person out there who can look at, say, a heavy metal rocker and think, "Tsk, tsk, tsk. He's going to hell, for certain. Shame." They all can't help but think it. Well, that punk rocker doesn't *need* thier pity, and probably would be incenced at the *thought* of someone making that kind of conclusion. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:22:31 Message Number 6495 JB>...and you belong to some group know as nonsmoker fanaticus then... JB>...-such behavior isn't restricted to RELIGION - I prefer to believe JB>...everyone has the...ability to be...ASSHOLE. Hmmm. I take it that you smoke, then. Such a shame, for you will certainly fall into that dark place where your lungs will suffer eternal torment, and you shall reside in Hospital Cancer Ward until the end of your time. Unless you see the light, and deprive yourself of all furth further pleasures of the tobbacco and become SAVED, yes, can you hear me brother? (Shout from crowd, "YES!") Yes, you must SAVE yourself from this nasty addition to this sinful NIcotine and Tar substance which even now your very body fights to rid itself of! Yes, you KNOW that you should stop! (Shout from the crowd, "STOP! STOP!") Then, when you ha have quit, you can go forth and do the Nonsmokers work...lobby your Congressmen! Join the Holy Boycotts of restaraunts without NO-SMOKING sections! ("Yes! Yes! No more smoke!") Let us pray... 'Oh, great Cigarrest campaign, we thank you for helping us to no longer smoke, to no longer bear this great addiction which surely would have caused us to linger in the Cancer Ward till the end of our days. We as ask that you spend more on advertising and perhaps one day, make the Amazing Discoveries show, we ask that more people can see your way, and join us in our cause. ' Halleluja!  =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:38:44 Message Number 6497 JB> - when the majority says its immoral - they can make it stick. Or a Vocal Minority. VOLLEY =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:40:07 Message Number 6498 JB> And you, sir, are stereotyping southern with hick. Ignorance knows JB>no bounds as I am sure you are aware.. Yes, sir. That was not my intention. I am sure that there are a lot of intelligent southern borns.... Suffice to say, I have not met many, but that may be because there are so many damn yanks who have moved down here. (Bringing with them a modicum of intelligence, themselves.) The idea was to point out a stereotype, not to succumb to it. If it's any reassurance to anyone, everyone on this board is a Southerner, to me. (I am from Maine, tho, that's not something to brag about.) Does anyone have the statistics on who is the best educated state? =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: JONBOY Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:45:23 Message Number 6499 JB> Hey - yer petulant and ain't even close to diety status... Yes, sir, but I don't EXPECT everybody to worship me. What a joke. God creates man, then gives him free will, then if man doesn't worship Him, sends him to Hell! Some friggin free will! THAT is my major PEEVE with religion. You don't have a choice. All your kickin and screaming, in the end you don't have a choice. You WILL worship Him or you WILL go to hell. EOF. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Moral/Immoral/A Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:57:17 Message Number 6500 Ok, that's a good point. Lets re-state, (or allow me to). First, the examples you cited prove my point. The extermination of Jews was dissaproved of more widely than it was approved of. South Africa is dissaproved by more than it is approved of. Therefore, both could be considered immoral. And I consider anything PERVERSE to be immoral. And that includes Beastiality, Homosexuality. (They can be lumped into the same category - perverse. And the action of a Sick Mind.) If Charles Dittell (who we all know, he's really a good guy and I'm sorry to use him in this example) who we all know is perfectly normal guy. I mean, we all like him, and he is nomral in all respects (at least he seems to be and if he isn't PLEASE don't anyone tell me, cause I really like the guy) I say again, normal. Now if tomorrow you all found out that he was into molesting little girls, what would you think of him? "Oh, he's really a swell guy. So what if he's into molesting little girls in his spare time in his own house. *I don't care.*" I think not. I for one would drop all association with him. And don't push any of that crap at me, 'Oh, he needs you most the, (SP-then) because he needs his friends now more than ever.' Hey, I've heard sweetness and light and I'm sick of it. And the same goes of anybody...if they are PERVERSE then I want nothing to do with them. I can't see why /you/ don't understand where I'm coming from!!!! =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:11:18 Message Number 6501 T>Do you believe that there are no monogamous homosexual relation- T>ships? Oh, no, I have heard of states legalizing marraige between two of the same sex. *sigh* I can't believe it, but I've heard of it. T>Homos (what a...quaint word!)... I could use others. I would prefer to use others. Give me PERMISSION to use others. T>...can be faithful to one another too, shocking as that may be to T>discover, hmm? I'm not shocked. It kind of follows, in the wake of the recent AIDS epidemic. Although, I'm sure, that there were even before the disease. I still think it's sick. But then, I suppose that they think I'm sick for preferring women. "Oh, that NASTY boy! LOOK at what heeth with!" "Ummm. What a shame." Sorry, I couldn't resist. So, then you agree with Donthen...so what else is new. I'm just tryin to defend Heart. But it irks me a little that he criticized that and supports homosexuality. Seems to me that a stereotype has to emerge somewhere. Just as a legend should have a grain of truth. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:22:05 Message Number 6502 T> Whew! kinda superior there, doncha think? No. T> I can think of some relatively irreverent peope who could use a T>broader outlook... And I can think a a few people who are somewhat close minded, also. What's your point? Look, just do me a favor and acknowledge my point of view. I can see where you might think that what goes on behind closed doors can be one's own business, but there are exceptions to that rule, too!!! I'm not saying that there is no such things as "one's own business", but I can't condone child beating, or molestation, or rape, or homo... or beasti..., and these are all things that can go on behind closed doors!!! Now, you tell me that all these things are all perfectly acceptable to you under your "one's own personal business" rule and I'll finally understand what kind of person you are. (And anyone else who can say that!!) =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Frustration... Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:29:39 Message Number 6503 T>Ummm... Gun control! Gun control! HAHAH! Man, you are funny! =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: GEORGE WILLIAMS Subject: nice bear Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:35:52 Message Number 6504 ----------------------- What in the heck was that?!?! ----------------------- Crispan, having nothing better to do, turns an ear to the other side of the bar, where Wezip has pulled Xon aside. It is difficult to discern what is being said, especially after Xon's annoyed order. He gives up, finally. He goes to drink, and finds that his bottle is empty. He shoves it forward, and looks around the bar. He wonderes idly where that pretty fox is. Xons girlfriend. A polar bear snuffles him for a minute causing him some consternation, and moves on. His browns furrow. A polar bear? When did that com in? =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: DONTHEN Subject: relationships Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:46:04 Message Number 6505 D>...you believe that if a person's life doesn't fit your idea of D>moral purity, it makes that person worthless scum, correct? No, it makes them sick. Sick. I don't feel that any other person in a mental ward is worthless scum. THe only difference is that one is walking the street, while the other is locked up. Sick. Mentally defective. Something wrong, something shorted. Something not quite resgistering. Sick. =========== From: ANGEL To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:14:08 Message Number 6506 > So, like what are you saying? That the bible has nothing to do with > Christian religion? No, I said exactly what I said. =========== From: ANGEL To: GEORGE WILLIAMS Subject: misspelling Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:31:39 Message Number 6507 The word dick has a "k" on the end. If you go to the trouble of writing it so often, you should at least spell it correctly. =========== From: ANGEL To: DONTHEN Subject: Mr. Williams Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:46:25 Message Number 6508 Donthen, why are advocating censorship? Why are you suggesting Turtle delete certain messages? Wasn't it you so incensed just a short while ago when I even hinted that there were certain messages that Turtle might wish to delete? You want to re-think your speech against censorship? Is it only messages that offend you that should be considered deleted? This is not argumentative.... I'm actually laughing. I thought if I waited long enough a situation would arise where you advocated deleting messages ("censorship" as you called it, not I). You have made me very happy. Personally, I feel leave the messages in (though I applaud the deletion of the multiple copies of it .... redundancy should always be avoided). =========== From: ANGEL To: JONBOY Subject: definition Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:52:55 Message Number 6509 That is your definition of Christianity. The Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists would disagree. =========== From: BEATLE To: DONTHEN Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:26:13 Message Number 6511 > M.C. Hammer penning the equivalents to Don Henley's... Speaking of which, I don't think M.C. Hammer can write songs about anything but himself. I'd like to see someone prove me wrong. Actually, if I had to pick someone in rap who approximates music, I would say M.C. Hammer or Young M.C. (at least from what small amount of rap I've heard) ... The problem is, everything I've heard M.C. Hammer do has been pretty much from his ego, such as he's got a god given gift to be a great rapper and he's been all around the world and he has a lot of money, and "U Can't Touch This"... Even the album title makes himself out to be a big deal: "Please, Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em"... =========== From: BEATLE To: DONTHEN Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:35:01 Message Number 6512 > not the icons of the..."I've Got Your Girlfriend" audience... What scares me is that if you tune into MTV's daily request countdown, it turns out to be mostly metal and such. Some of it could be good. Groups like Poison make me wonder... some of the stuff is better. The sons of Ricky Nelson formed a semi-metal group that isn't that bad. But, to see that up in the same countdown with a group who shows a fish gasping for oxygen bugs me... =========== From: BEATLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:40:07 Message Number 6513 > But he always points out women, I think there is some sort of > discression going on here! Discression? I don't think so. I think you mean discrimination. Think, though. Try naming some pop stars. Most of them are women. Madonna, Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson, Wilson Philips, etc... probably more. =========== From: BEATLE To: ETC... Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:43:33 Message Number 6514 > manditory recycling programs... Better opt for voluntary recycling. Some sicko is bound to pop up and say that someone telling him he HAS to separate his trash to recycle violates his rights... I'm for recycling though. I wish it were easier. They should have us separate the trash into aluminum, glass, paper, etc., and then then, they can pick it up for you. Of course, then you don't get paid for it, you pay for them to pick it up. =========== From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:55:26 Message Number 6515 > ...so do you have the right to behave in accordance with yours? I never said we had the right to act for the religion. I just said you ave the right to choose one. I always follow the idea that you have the right to do something unless it intrudes upon someone else. I know that is quite vague, and it might be wrong, but it sounds logical. I know, "Whoever said the human race is logical"? (R) Paramount Pictures, Inc. 1986. =========== From: BEATLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:01:27 Message Number 6516 > His CD has some of the most amazing Surround Sound effects I have ever > heard on a CD.... Now that I have a Dolby processor, I have listened to a lot of stuff, and in my opinion, the mixing blows George Michael away. Stuff like Paul McCartney's "Flowers in the t" has a good front/back separation that is quite apparent and nice. The B-52's "Cosmic Thing" has some nice effects but they could have used more. Older stuff, like the Beatles' collection, worked surround from four- track masters, so you get some apparent surround effects, such as full vocal backing and a whole bass section, or an orchestra, and my favorite -- double tracked vocals out of the rear channels... That's just me, however. I also found that my setup produces a more noticable effect. When I hear your system, everything seems a bit ddled in a mix... =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Moral/Immoral/A Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:10:17 Message Number 6517 > You and I (and everybody else) think that it's perverse... I think Donthen, and Turtle, and I (and everybody else) would consider that a rude statement. I don't have anything against homosexuality. I don't find ANYTHING perverse. Shall we consider someone perverse because they like to watch gory movies? You might get some psychological evidence that watching gory movies is perverse, but I've never heard anyone say that homosexuality is perverse. I think it stems from the fact that people are uncomfortable around them. I personally don't know if I've met any homosexuals. I don't think it's perverse, either. If t they were to MAKE me join in, that would possibly be perverse. =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:15:17 Message Number 6518 > What's the difference? > what's the difference between a hetro man/woman and a Homo man/woman > as far as multiple lovers? In your first case, you are asking the difference between homo- sexuality and not being monogomous. There, there's a heap of difference. In your second case, there is NO difference. If a person has multiple lovers, it's the same thing if they are heterosexual or homosexual. The question about how Donthen can approve of homosexuality and dis- approve of one-night stands frankly makes no sense to me. Evidently, you consider both acts immoral, but he doesn't. It's all your prerogative, but I think you'll find that a lot of people here don't find ome- (oops) homosexuality immoral. =========== From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: Bumper annoyanc Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:39:09 Message Number 6519 > "You know, I'm a Christian so I'm better than you." Or, my favorite: "...Because we're anglo-saxon Christians and we know best." -- (TM) Armadillo Connection, Inc. a subsidiary of Robinson Computer Services =========== From: BEATLE To: RUFUS Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:53:04 Message Number 6520 > It's much smaller and doesn't eat as much as Zot Gnop Unfortunately, I only have a TV to keep me company. Jeez, my summer is really sucky. Daily, I wake up at 11:00 or so after staying up late doing nothing in particular. Then, since I have no transportation except for my feet (and there is nowhere within reasonable limits for me feet to take me to), I stay in my home. My parents won't do anything about getting me a bike, since I'm almost old enough to drive. My parents are lazy, slobbish jerks, and they won't listen to my ideas for change. I hate that. I can't STAND being cooped up here. When the time comes that they have a day off, and I could actually GET somewhere, they're too lazy to go anywhere unless they need to meet their daily quota of Pepsi, beer, and cigarettes. Forgive my ranting and raving, but I really need someone to give me relief so I can cope with being REALLY bored and lost... =========== From: BEATLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:05:02 Message Number 6521 > molestation...rape...homo ey, we all know you don't condone those thingThere is, however, a difference there. Molestation and rape are not in any way related to homosexuality. Molestation and rape are acts that an individual does against another person, whereas homosexuality is something that people whconsent with one another have. I don't see any relation. Where can homosexuality hurt you? A rape could, but how does homosexuality hurt YOU?? =========== From: TURTLE To: DONTHEN Subject: Really offtopic Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:15:00 Message Number 6522 >I can't speak for Turtle... No, but a lot of people claim you speak just /like/ him. =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:20:08 Message Number 6523 Stingray is awesome. Stingray is the television program of the aardvarks. Stingray is an example of what TV programming can be when it's not overrun by illiterate schmuks. Stingray requires the viewer's brain to be engaged while it's on. Stingray was a commercial flop. Stingray got cancelled. =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Earth??!! Huh? Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:22:40 Message Number 6524 You have TWO Timex-Sinclairs? You computer geek! What on earth does someone need with FOUR computers??? ...wanna get rid of one of them? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:27:03 Message Number 6525 >They all subscribe to the same God, right? So what more? Ted Bundy and I both drive (or drove) Volkswagen Bugs...so what more? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really somethin Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:28:17 Message Number 6526 >Does anyone have the statistics on who is the best educated state? Uh...Japan? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really odd Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:29:19 Message Number 6527 >You WILL worship Him or you WILL go to Hell. FOR sinner:=burned TO cinder; NEXT sinner =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Moral/Irrelevan Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:30:48 Message Number 6528 My point was that the regimes of both South Africa and (particularly) the Third Reich had popular support; does that mean that in the context of those societies, their actions were moral? Or is morality determined on a WORLDWIDE scale? (If that's the case, I bet you'd find that polygamy is moral...) In any event, Sir, you disappoint me. Trying to equate homosexuality with child molestation just don't work. Or does it matter to you that the one is an action between consenting adults and the other is an attack on an innocent person? If the difference is irrelevant to you, then would you say that rape and sexual intercourse are on the same moral plane? You have placed yourself in the unenviable position of making a comparison I think even /you/ won't attempt to defend. Speaking of morality, which we are, would you consider oral-genital intimacy an immoral act? I have here in front of me a magazine article which states that two months ago in Lincolnton, North Carolina, a man was sentenced to ten years in prison for engaging in oral sex with his wife. On the same day, the same judge sentenced a man convicted of murder to five years in prison and a convicted arsonist to eight years in prison. I'm curious if there's actually anyone I know who would say justice was served in that particular case, and the most likely person I can think of is you (no offense). Incidentally, the law calls oral sex a "detestible and abominable crime against nature and mankind" and sets a maximum sixty-year sentence for the act. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Heart Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:40:32 Message Number 6529 >I have heard of states legalizing marraige between people of the same >sex... Technically, you can't "legalize" something that wasn't specifically outlawed to begin with. Those states have simply decided to /legally recognize/ homosexual pairings. >Give me PERMISSION to use [other words for gays]... Sir, I can hardly /prevent/ you from using any word you want, and in any event I would not presume to tell you what you can or cannot say if I could. On the other hand, a racist who uses words like "nigger" can rightfully be expected to be blasted for it...see the analogy?? >You agree with Donthen... Not particularly. He's morally offended by the Heart song; I just find it insipid and not terribly musically interesting. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Disappointment Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:44:32 Message Number 6530 >...I can't condone child beating, or molestation, or rape, or homo... *sigh* Very disappointing, indeed. Let's see how many people spot the flaw in that statement. I shan't even bother to point it out again. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Frustration... Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:46:53 Message Number 6531 Gun control will make crime go away and make everything perfect forever. If you don't believe it, ask any fanatic liberal...you can tell 'em 'cause they have both feet firmly planted in the air. Conservatives, on the other hand, are wiser; they realize crime won't go away until you take away everyone's dirty magazines. =========== From: TURTLE To: BEATLE Subject: Pop-ola Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:51:00 Message Number 6532 >Groups like Poison makle me wonder... Groups like Poison meake me sick. Poison is one group every metal-hater can rightfully use to bludgeon us headbangers (we headbangers?) quite thoroughly. Poison's best song to date is "Every Rose Has Its Thorns," which on a scale of 1 to 10 barely pulls a 3.5. For the most part, Poison does to heavy metal what Jonestown did to Kool-Aid. =========== From: TURTLE To: --- Subject: Huh? Wha? Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:56:52 Message Number 6533 Turtle frowns, smiles, frowns again, then tries to do both without success. He reaches out to a large, fluffy animal and scratches it behind the ears as it sniffs suspiciously at him, then stares at it in utter astonishment as it wanders away. "Uh...Um, you know...uh..." he says, tugging at Angel's sleeve with one hand while pointing frantically at the oversized polar bear with the other. Angel, oblivious, continues talking about her ship. "Uh, hey, uh, Rufus?" he tries, and for his effort is rewarded with the insurance salesman's plea for help. "Um, somebody /is/ trying to shoot at you? Bummer! I hate when that happens. Um, there's a polar bear eating something nasty behind you. Is it yours? Oh, never mind, it's the giant's. Never mind. Wonder how he got it through the door. Yeah, of course I'd be happy to help find out who's trying to kill you. Uh, who /is/ trying to kill you, anyway? Oh, God, Not him, not now, please!" Turtle sighs and glares at the bongo-person who's just popped into the pub. The bongoed individual gets into a conversation with the Norse giant, with Turtle interjecting the occasional comment, and vanishes. Turtle turns to Rufus and says "God, I need a vacation. Rufus, why is that little red thing on your briefcase blinking like that?" =========== From: CRYSTAL To: BEATLE Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/18/90 03:22:01 Message Number 6534 My parents live in Ft. Myers, they have a manditory recycling program their. They have no problems, they have seperate bags and boy do I hear it when I put something in the wrong bag. They pick certain stuff up on certain days. They pay for trash pick up twice a week why not one more time. And becides they provide clear bags for bottles and plastics so its no real problem. Anyway I do believe Sarasota should pay more attention to the recycling problem then the T-Back problem. But then who am I. * CRYSTAL * =========== From: CRYSTAL To: TURTLE Subject: Earth??!! Huh? Date & Time: 07/18/90 03:31:41 Message Number 6535 >You have TWO Timex-Sinclairs? You computer geek! What on earth does >someone need with FOUR computers??? >...wanna get rid of one of them? Turtle, byte your mother board. * CRYSTAL * =========== From: KEN OBER To: TURTLE Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/18/90 05:00:45 Message Number 6536 You are obviously not concerned about the fact that our country is going MARXIST and such -- Oh well...Hey, why has your system connected me at 300 baud -- The auto-baud on my term (really helpful) dumped me into the 300 baud mode instead of the usual 1200 for your board! =========== From: KEN OBER To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/18/90 05:05:17 Message Number 6537 Sure Recycling is a good idea, but nothing should be made "mandatory" besides taxes! :) We can offer incentives to recycle -- Like a deposit program on cans like many states have done -- We can do the same for most anything...And the people still have a choice if they desire to recycle or not... =========== From: KEN OBER To: ALL Subject: Hiya!Q Date & Time: 07/18/90 05:09:31 Message Number 6538 ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION! The Armadillo Connection RAS now has FIDONET FURRY ECHOS! We currently are polling FURRY FANDOM and FURRY MAGAZINES -- We should be having TOONS 'N' MORPHS and a JAPANIMATION ECHO /very/ soon! SO give us a call today and grab all the new messages through the echos! Also! Aliases are now allowed, just send a message to the SysOp about which alias you desire to use..... Give us a call now! The Armadillo Connection RAS 813/378-2218 -=- 24 Hrs -=- 3/12/2400 Baud In Lovely Sarasota, Florida! Fidonet 1:137/999 (Temporary) =========== From: BEATLE To: TURTLE Subject: Pop-ola Date & Time: 07/18/90 14:25:40 Message Number 6539 Poison's best song to date is "Every Rose Has Its Thorns," And, if I'm not mistaken, that wasn't their song. Either that, or more than one group has done a song by that title. =========== From: BEATLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/18/90 14:27:41 Message Number 6540 > You are obviously not concerned about the fact that our country is > going MARXIST and such -- Jeez, you're starting to sound like the assholes on Beyond Chaos who can't shut up about stupid things. From the messages I've seen, I believe Turtle is concerned with the fact that our freedoms are being taken away. =========== From: BEATLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/18/90 14:29:43 Message Number 6541 > nothing should be made "manditory" besides taxes! Are you being MARXIST??? Grrr... had to do it... =========== From: MAX To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:00:58 Message Number 6542 The "we're all going to heaven and you're not" attitude is not nearly as common in religions that aren't Judeo-Christian. A lot of early European religions, like Wicca, and most Eastern ones believe that all religions are potentially paths to the truth and their chosen religion is merely the best one (i.e., Christianity and Buddhism may both lead to enlightenment, but it's the difference between taking an expressway and a narrow footpath through the Andes). Also, many of these religions don't have concepts that are analagous to "heaven" and "hell" to begin with. You are not likely to find any Wiccans accosting you with the information that if you don't join their coven, your soul is doomed forever. =========== From: MAX To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: relationships Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:06:34 Message Number 6543 Yes, like I said, you seem to believe it makes them worthless scum. One of the major differences between homosexuality and other "perversions" you list is that it is "victimless." The people engaged it are all doing it of their own free will, by their choice. The same cannot be said of rape, incest, child molestation, wife beating, or if you take the animal's point of view into matters, bestiality. Why won't YOU acknowledge OUR point -- even if you don't like homosexuality, and don't condone it or approve of it, it doesn't make the homosexual in question into a child-molesting perverted monster? It only makes him or her) a human being with a sexual preference you don't like. Not a human being with a habit that actively hurts others, which is what you seem to keep trying to lump it in with. Comprende? =========== From: MAX To: ANGEL Subject: Mr. Williams Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:10:39 Message Number 6544 I figure a bulletin board is part of the sysop's house. If it was mine, I would have deleted the message. I wouldn't consider it censorship because I wouldn't be deleting it on the grounds I don't agree with what our good friend Mr. Williams said, or even how he said it. As I said way back in the discussion chain you'd referred to, I /have/ deleted messages before -- but never on the basis of the ideas in them. I know that when I call a board for the first time and I get confronted with a message like Mr. Williams' and it becomes evident that the sysop DIDN'T delete it after reading it, it usually indicates the sort of board I wouldn't want to call again, i.e., one where such things are taken for granted and the responses are likely to be "shut up, you f--- dickhead " for the next 50 messages. Bulletin boards that allow handles to begin with are often lumped into that category solely on the basis of not forcing everyone to use real names, hence, I'm admittedly sensitive to anything that would encourage that reaction. This is why blatantly offensive messages with no logic or intelligence behind them comprise one of my buttons. =========== From: MAX To: BEATLE Subject: Gag-ola Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:16:36 Message Number 6545 I personally don't like the song with the fish gasping for oxygen. Both Rufus and Turtle love it. While I have a pretty eclectic taste in music, the appeal of "Epic" (the song in question) escapes me; musically it's not all that impressive, and even if it's a spoof of rap, it's done in a way that sets me on edge as much as the current masterpieces by Public Enemy and Ice-T do. Luckily, it is not representative of the rest of Faith No More's album. =========== From: MAX To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:20:33 Message Number 6546 "Stingray" also had a kind of peculiar episode on last night. =========== From: RUFUS To: BEATLE Subject: Recycling Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:43:47 Message Number 6547 Beatle, it takes very little time to set up three containers for aluminum, glass, and paper. Just pop the item in the can (or box, or whatever you use to hold things) and your done with. Whenever you get around to it, go to the recycling place and get some money. I usually get at least $12 for my stuff, which makes it worth the 45 mins. I spend getting down there and back. Or if you don't want to drive down to the place, I'm sure there is some church or boy scout troop that would come and get it. =========== From: RUFUS To: BEATLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:49:38 Message Number 6548 Feel free to rant and rave all you want. Ranting and raving is good for the enviroment and you. And it doesn't hurt the ozone layer or take up space in our land fills. =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Really annoying Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:53:40 Message Number 6549 Stingray, we shall miss him. Thank the aardvarks for bringing Stingray back in re-runs. =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Earth??!! Huh? Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:54:29 Message Number 6550 Five computers, if you count the Vic. I could let you have one if I can find them. They are so small, you can lose them between the pages of a book. ===========