From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Deal Date & Time: 05/20/90 18:29:14 Message Number 4800 Beats the shit outta me - I gave ya all the names I had and these are *bare* boards. The RAM card shouldn't be too tuff.... =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/20/90 18:31:13 Message Number 4801 NAh - I'm talking about AFTER the system checks when it just sits there. =========== From: JONBOY To: ANGEL Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/20/90 18:38:03 Message Number 4802 I get your point about the Illiad but the copies that we have are acknowledged to be copies. We also believe in the existence of Socrates even though we only have ONE piece of text that asserts his existence! Now are scientists and philossophers that naive? Of course not. You acknowledge that the Old Testament is much older than 2000 years. Correct almost 4500 years old by our best dating methods. The Old Testament documents God's dealings with His creations and the fact that we "drifted" away from a close relationship with him. It also points to the solution to the problem which is what the New Testanment document I get kinda tired of people saying that the entire text of the Old Testament is subject to doubt. As far as authenticity (ie not a fabrication by a later generation or an outside group) it is the best documented book ever. The subject matter is what is in doubt in many peoples minds. Ok - that is faith. The point that I like to make is ] that in this well authenticated book there are certain claims made that jive with the real world. Nah - I really don't hsve the time to delve into the predictions or whatever. Really I'm kind of tired of this discussion because most of the folks involved aren't interested in pursuing any sort of philosophical or truth-seeking sort of discus- sion --- they simply want to argue their point blindly. Oh yeah back to the point I started to make - we have copies of Old testament books that are dated to the time they were actually written (ie originals or near enough) which we cannot claim for most Greek and Roman works. Hell even Shakespeare's stuff is in doubt as to the author!! =========== From: JONBOY To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: Xnty... Date & Time: 05/20/90 18:53:08 Message Number 4803 Dear Lady - you really have hit a major part of it square on the head. God really isn't an abstract concept to be bandied around with an expectation of learning anything (if it happens - great! Just don't expect it). Religion is a very personal thing that to truly get comfortable with - you have to ask yourself questions and then look for answers. Maybe it sound kind of stupid - but I think Chip will agree with me that religion is merely a political manifestation of belief. In other words if we are all gonna get along we need some rules Thus I believe most are inherently wrong to various degrees. Your relationship to God is actually a personal one that you must develop on your own, within your own framework. BTW when ya wanna get together? Ever been to Mulcahey's AKA the Doghouse? I usually haunt the place Mondays (Buffalo Wings nite!) and Wednesday (Taco Nite). Sometimes I can drag along the guy I work with - but I go to just eat and relax. =========== From: JONBOY To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: godtalk Date & Time: 05/20/90 19:05:49 Message Number 4804 I dunno what point your tyrying to make unless you are genuinly unaware that Islam descended from Ishmael and the animosity between Arabs and Jews derives from the "stolen" birthright. =========== From: SAURON To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: What I'm doing. Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:25:39 Message Number 4805 >...partly atheist... Interesting stance. Which part? One you don't mind losing if they're right? Kind of like W.C. Fields's old disclaimer...just looking for loopholes =========== From: SAURON To: TURTLE Subject: menus Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:31:39 Message Number 4806 Once - just once, I'd enjoy telling one of those cuties at Burger King what "my way" really is... =========== From: SAURON To: DONTHEN Subject: They hate... Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:37:49 Message Number 4807 Yes, but seventeen of those had to do with things like surf conditions and proper Pork garnishes, so they hardly count. =========== From: SAURON To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: ::sigh:: Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:40:39 Message Number 4808 I'm still new to this mush dos crap, but I have a modicum of savvy when it comes to telecomunnications, and after evaluating 7 or 8 term programs, Telix stands out as reasonably inoffensive. =========== From: SAURON To: ANGEL Subject: dirt, she says? Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:45:27 Message Number 4809 The highlight of MY weekend was putting all my canned foods in alphabetical order. (once the Hungarian twin airline hostesses left) So don't bitch to ME about dull weekends. =========== From: SAURON To: TURTLE Subject: hack/cough Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:51:21 Message Number 4810 In an era when everyone seems to detest "labels" it's interesting that you cling so fervently to the hacker label, and want everyone to know what the term REALLY means. hehehehe. =========== From: SAURON To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: What I'm doing. Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:54:45 Message Number 4811 Two thoughts occur: If your religious views are uncertain, that puts you smack into the agnostic camp with 90% of the rest of us. (admitted or not) Also - Never apologize for anything, to me or anyone else. Sorry if that last sounds like I'm trying to tell you what to do. I'm not. =========== From: SAURON To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Polynesians Date & Time: 05/20/90 21:58:08 Message Number 4812 EVERY Polynesian? No, but s few. I have no idea what point I was trying to make. I've forgotten. I have the attention span of a 3/8" open-end wrench. =========== From: SAURON To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: godtalk Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:00:44 Message Number 4813 Certain California Redwood trees have existed for even longer than that. So what? They still suck...except for making patio decks. =========== From: SAURON To: SNAKEBYTE Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:04:45 Message Number 4814 I don't know. What DOES O.M.A stand for? BTW, I have it on good authority that the best scene from the 1938 serial "Flash Gordon's trip to Mars" ended up on the cutting room floor. See - Buster Crabbe got carried away and said something like... "Okay Ming, this time it's your ass!" BTW again - anyone remember who Dejah Thoris was? =========== From: SAURON To: DELPHI Subject: godtalk Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:17:15 Message Number 4815 If you don't own a bra, you surely should buy one. =========== From: SAURON To: C.C.A. Subject: Gimme that.... Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:22:01 Message Number 4816 "Okay honey, get ready for a REAL good time." (See Truck Stop Lust) =========== From: SAURON To: SPELLWIND Subject: medeival Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:26:54 Message Number 4817 >Winger Not Deborah? =========== From: SAURON To: TURTLE Subject: -System Crash- Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:33:05 Message Number 4818 I admire your stamina. =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:51:03 Message Number 4819 If 2000 years from now somebody had a perfect copy of "Stranger in a Strange Land", that would provide the same sort of "validation" you give for the OT. As for people here "simply want[ing] to argue their point blindly" and not being interested in philosophy, I disagree. If you'll notice, most people's objections to your arguments don't come from Biblical historical accuracy or lack thereof, but from the underlying beliefs that Christianity is based on (or the beliefs that most Christians act on, as the two are not necessarily identical). It would seem that out of all the debaters, excepting C.C.A., you are the very one most open to the accusation you're making. As a former New College student said about a completely unrelated subject, "Think before you think." =========== From: DONTHEN To: SAURON Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/20/90 22:59:56 Message Number 4820 Well, actually, I /did/ know who Dejah Thoris was once, but seem to have forgotten. Flash Gordon's girlfriend? Or am I in the wrong serial? Dejah Thoris, or something very close to that (maybe Delilah, now that I think about it--no, it was Dejah), was also the girl the player's character was trying to rescue in Automated Simulations' 1980 computer game "Rescue at Rigel", which still stands as one of the best spacegoing computer RPG's written to date. Automated Simulations later changed their name to their most famous "imprint"--Epyx--and started producing goop; their two best programmers left and formed Freefall Associates, responsible for Archon I and II and, very recently, a new RPG from Electronic Arts which looks very promising. I may not know 1930's serials, but I know obscure computer games real well. =========== From: DONTHEN To: ALL Subject: Storyboard... Date & Time: 05/20/90 23:08:38 Message Number 4821 The Wyvern's Den is a pub occupying the first floor of an old three- story building in downtown Raneadhros, the city-state capital of the Ranean Empire. The Den is run by an irascible, cigar-chomping balding fat man named Donthen Varinn, who is said to be a retired wizard, although few people have seen him do more than parlour tricks. The assistant barkeep is another human named Xonzoff, who may or may not be Donthen's apprentice. Ranea itself exists on a world that straddles a pecularity in the time-space continuum (that's right, not a singularity, a peculiarity). Many dimensions exist in the universe--some with worlds very similar to our own, some almost unrecognizably different. All of these dimensions "touch" at one, and only one point. That point is the dimension where Ranea sits. From Ranea, it is possible to cross into any of the other dimensions (with the appropriate magic/technology, of course); from the other dimensions, you can only get to Ranea. Many, or most, travellers don't realize they are crossing through Ranea's plane of existence in cross-dimensional travel... unless, of course, something goes wrong. When it does, they usually end up there. Ranea itself exists on a world whose only native races (as far as anyone can tell) are humans and the mysterious, magical Sidhe. Over the centuries, hundreds of other races have arrived here, either by space or dimensional travel. These races run the gamut from what we would call elves and dwarves to "furries" (highly evolved, sapient animals, usually bipedal and built quite similarly to humans, albeit with pointed ears and fur), and occasionally to more off-the-wall types. --- "Ranean Tales" is a free-form role-playing game where participants have characters, but there is no referee. The world has appeared in stories in "FurVersion" and shortly in "YARF!" and this storyboard existed on my own BBS, "The Wyvern's Den", for about a year. Well, we're back. I'll be posting "catch-up" summaries shortly. =========== From: KEN OBER To: RAVEN Subject: Bungee! Date & Time: 05/20/90 23:44:06 Message Number 4822 Welp, I have a feeling we'd have to weigh the Turtle down with a few rocks or a shell or something -- Right now it is too light to do "The Bungee Thing" with any performance... =========== From: KEN OBER To: DONTHEN Subject: Nusubject (tm) Date & Time: 05/20/90 23:49:39 Message Number 4823 > The only problem with hotkeys is the line noise, or pressing the > wrong key and having it go to the wrong menu... Or running Dim-Witted BBS-PC for the AMiga, which has menus like... [C]hat SysOp [F]eedback [G]oodbye [C/1] File Area #1 [C/2] File Area #2 etc... And if you attempt to type "C/1" when the menu is displaying, or just a tad bit too early before the prompt is displayed, you get: Paging SysOp........... Annoying, eh? But now as annoying as when you forget that THIS BBS doesn't have hotkeys, and you try to perform a "P" function before the menu is displayed, and the menu stops displaying, because "P" is for Pause when the menu is displaying, but when the prompt comes up, "P" is for PERSONAL! That' smy spew for the day ... Gods am I tired.... =========== From: KEN OBER To: SAURON Subject: What I'm doing. Date & Time: 05/20/90 23:54:48 Message Number 4824 > Never apologize for anything... > ... Sorry is that last sounds like I'm trying to tell you what to do. heheheh....I just /had/ to point that one out! =========== From: KEN OBER To: SAURON Subject: godtalk Date & Time: 05/20/90 23:57:05 Message Number 4825 > They [Certain California Redwood trees] still suck... But they provide the oxygen that keeps you and me alive! =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: RUFUS Subject: Messages Date & Time: 05/21/90 06:54:41 Message Number 4827 >I should sleep better tonight. SLEEP?!? What's that?!? I think I've heard that word before, but I'm not sure where... The unicorn who has not had more than four consecutive hours of that stuff in exactly 10 days... =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: RUFUS Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/21/90 07:11:58 Message Number 4828 Can the SAJW be set to other religious organizations? Just curious... Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: DONTHEN Subject: Jim Henson Date & Time: 05/21/90 07:12:56 Message Number 4829 ----------------------------------- ! We're all part of the ! ! Sesame Street generation ! ----------------------------------- ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: SPELLWIND Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/21/90 07:18:49 Message Number 4830 The Pagan Detecto-Rama went off the scale when the Jehovah's witness went by your house. Personally, I think they were afraid to go near... Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TURTLE Subject: Real ice cream Date & Time: 05/21/90 07:23:21 Message Number 4832 Stop doing that! The real road to Slack (tm) was conceived NOT by the Subgenii, but by John Muir in "The Velvet Monkey-Wrench" -- a thoroughly wonderful book about how to take over the U.S., Canada, and Mexico -- and what to do with them once you've got them. It includes discussions about Slack (tm), a One World Credit Card, Maximal Unemployment, and underground comic books. The problem: it was trying to be serious. A VMW Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TURTLE Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/21/90 07:29:31 Message Number 4833 Dear Turtle, In a sense, you're absolutely right: Christianity doesn't force any moral code on its believers. But, it's easy to overlay just about any moral code onto it. "If you love Me, follow My commandments" is a really wonderful general clause with which one can do almost anything. If it's Eco- Christianity one wants, add Genesis 2:26-28 (about man's dominion over the earth) and take off from there, adding verses about being a "good steward" ("It is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful." -- I Co 4:2), and such... Voila! Instant Eco- cChristianity (tm) (Just add water.) Then again, almost any other moral system can be gotten from other passages of Scripture... (especially if one uses verses from Eccles- iastes.) Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TURTLE Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/21/90 07:37:31 Message Number 4834 The Plain Truth and the Watchtower are both churches of Satan? I'd love to see that tract... Then again, I've seen a book at Bob Jones University about how to witness Christianity to Southern Baptists. Next time I drive through South Carolina... (Hmmm... anyone want to drive to Greenville, S.C. sometime in the near future?) Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: JONBOY Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/21/90 07:42:48 Message Number 4835 Dear Jonboy, As to some of your claims and comments: 1. I am willing to "pursue philosphical or truth-seeking dis- cussions." As I've said, I have doubts about my religion which I'd like to clear up. BUT -- I'm sick of meeting people who ask me to have an open mind, and keep theirs closed if I point out valid objections. 2. Although only one piece of text asserts Socrates' existence, it's, umm... a rather lengthy piece of text. (How long does Plato rave about his master?) Then again, you would have to say exactly the same things about characters of the Bible... 3. The "original" Illiad never existed: Homer was most likely illiterate. Breaking off for a second, most Christians claim that the Bible (OT an NT) is the Spoken Word of God, and that every single word comes directly from God. Though the Illiad and the works of Plato have a longer time between the original copies and what we have, variations aren't that important. 4. I don't believe we actually have copies of the OT from that early. I recall that the Dead Sea Scrolls were a thousand years older than any of the previously known OT manuscripts -- and they date from about 100 B.C. 5. The prophecies are a doubtful way of "proving" the OT. If you don't believe me, read some of the early Martin Gardner. ("The prophecies that succeed are remembered. The ones that fail, aren't." Also, people have an incredible ability to "read into" prophecy.) 6. Is Shakespeare's authorage really in doubt? Only by a very few crackpots. There's enough documentation about Shakespeare's life to know he wrote the plays. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: SAURON Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/21/90 08:00:50 Message Number 4836 Dejah Thoris? Two books spring to mind: The luscious woman who was Capt. E. Smith's consort in the Barsoom series. The luscious woman who was Capt. Z. E. Smith's consort in the Mark of the Beast by Heinlein. Which one do you mean? Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: DONTHEN Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/21/90 08:05:13 Message Number 4837 Mr. Donthen- Thhhhhhhpt on you. "Rescue on Rigelis" (pre-released name "Rescue on Fractilis") was created by a subsidiary of LucasFilm. They made exactly two games: "Rescue" and some excellent 3-d soccer game which I can't remember the name of. They were released FIRST for the Atari home computers... (In fact, when they came out, there was a cash prize for the first to send a copy of the game to the company: they were that certain the program was unpirateable. Unfortunately, there were some pre-publication copies that had escaped LucasGames, and it died real quickly...) Unfortunately, due to the overwhelming number of Atari pirates, Rescue and BallBlazer (that's the name!) made a tiny profit -- or no profit at all. The rights to the games were sold to Epyx. Hmph! Next thing I know, you'll be telling me that the CrystalWare games were originally Epyx... Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/21/90 08:14:53 Message Number 4838 Before anyone says anything, Yes: I know Homer was blind. I really MEANT to put that in... (Maybe he wrote the original Illiad in Braille?) Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: SPELLWIND To: DONTHEN Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/21/90 10:00:11 Message Number 4840 Ming's daughter. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Jim Henson Date & Time: 05/21/90 10:06:09 Message Number 4841 I still watch old reruns of it and Mr. Rogers when waiting for Star Trek TNG to come on. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/21/90 10:08:04 Message Number 4842 She walked up, and even knocked! Though I eventually slammed the door... What do you mean by 'Pagan' anyway? I'm a pagan,but probablr not the kind you mean. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/21/90 10:15:27 Message Number 4843 Maybe he dictated it! Before you say why didn't someone sighted record it, maybe they couldn't write as well! He was blind but wandered alone between villages to tell the stories so maybe he was psychic and saw it clearer than the rest in his mind's eye. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: GEMINI'S Subject: - Date & Time: 05/21/90 10:19:51 Message Number 4844 Happy birthday Gemini's!!! =========== From: SPELLWIND To: ALL Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/21/90 10:24:23 Message Number 4845 You won't see aSt movie til after a TNG movie. They don't want to release it while the show's on the TV, so They're waiting til around 1994. I GOT IT OUT BEFORE DEREK MINER DID!!! UNBELIIVABLE!!! A frizzled Spellwind dude. PS ( The Simpsons are my role models too. ) PS2 ( I love headline news! ) =========== From: KEN OBER To: SPELLWIND Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/21/90 13:35:20 Message Number 4847 PS3 -- Picard is a dweeb... PS4 -- The PS2 is not HeadLine news! It is OLD news.... PS5 -- ST:TNG /may/ be better if Picard & Wesley & Riker were shot.... PS6 -- Get rid of those damn DustBusterish Phasers!!!! PS7 -- For gawds sake, GEY WARP ENGINES THAT ARE RELIABLE ALREADY... PS8 -- (Get a cloaking device, too...) =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: TURTLE Subject: Hey, dude! Date & Time: 05/21/90 14:45:53 Message Number 4848 I hate it when I try to call /you/ for 5 hours and the damn line is busy QED! -The Lady =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: TURTLE Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/21/90 15:15:46 Message Number 4849 It would sort of curl up, and flip out the other side.. Read Orion by Ben Bova.. he covers the trash can universe stuff. From what I've heard from anyone who tried AmigaDos before 1.2, you coudn't get close enough to it to sneeze before it crashed.. but apparently 1.2 & 1.3 are a lot more stable. I've got to play around with Nick's sometime... I don't really know what it's like right now. - Corwyn =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: SAURON Subject: What I'm doing. Date & Time: 05/21/90 15:25:26 Message Number 4851 Well, in a philisophical matter, I'll argue the side of the agnostic, but I sort of have an 'anti-faith' in that I believe that there is /not/ a god like that which is described in the Christain bible. - Corwyn =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: SAURON Subject: ::sigh:: Date & Time: 05/21/90 15:27:52 Message Number 4852 Yep.. it's nicer than anything else out there, for MS-DOS anyway... Telix 4.0 will probably be out in about a month.. it will have a TSR option. 'C' as a script language is pretty impressive. - Corwyn =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: ::sigh:: Date & Time: 05/21/90 15:57:36 Message Number 4853 I don't know...could ask you the same thing...I guess because you want to graduate, unlike SOME (hehehehe) I know! -the Lady =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/21/90 15:58:50 Message Number 4854 Hehehe...:) This is true, this is true.... -The Lady =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/21/90 15:59:45 Message Number 4855 I like NC...and NDD....they come in handdy and save much time with all the screwing around w/ the dos-line...DOn't listen to Turtle...he's Anti-IBM. He'll justify it for you, too...though I don't recommend it! :> The Lady =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: TURTLE Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/21/90 16:02:04 Message Number 4856 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}>:> (rem monster strikes again!) =========== From: TURTLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/21/90 16:34:16 Message Number 4857 >They're preaching now that the united europe will be the last empire >of satan. Really? I thought that was Canada! You never can tell what they're doing up there... =========== From: TURTLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/21/90 16:35:51 Message Number 4858 >The only religion(s) I disbelieve are all Judeo/Christian myths. Does that include Islam? At least the Koran nominally recognizes the right of Judiasm and Christianity to exist... If you only disbelieve Christianity and Judiasm, does that mean that you simultaneously believe all the others? I'd be interested in seeing how you believe both Hinduism and Shinto simultaneously... =========== From: TURTLE To: SAURON Subject: hack/cough Date & Time: 05/21/90 16:46:57 Message Number 4859 The term "hacker" is not a label, it's an honorific. I am a hacker; I reached that lofty and exaulted position by dint of a great deal of hard work and effort; I'm damn proud of it. So there! =========== From: SPELLWIND To: TURTLE Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/21/90 16:56:55 Message Number 4860 I believe all the god/desses exist whether the same god/dess or dif- ferent, yes. =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Nusubject (tm) Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:11:31 Message Number 4862 >..."P" is for Pause when the menu is displaying, but when the >prompt comes up, "P" is for PERSONAL! Everybody knows "P" is for Predicate, you dip! As in, a LISP function whichh returns a boolean usually ends in "P" (say, GLOBALP). =========== From: TURTLE To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real Pointless Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:16:47 Message Number 4863 Ahem, yes, well, Mr. Unicorn, I wasn't trying to imply that ecological responsibility couldn't be grafted onto Christianity, I was simply making the point that it isn't part of what most people call "Judeo-Christian values." :P =========== From: TURTLE To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:20:13 Message Number 4864 The tract is the one called "That Old Devil." It's really amazing: it contains a picture of the Devil as a Japanese dude, claims that the Pope is the Antichrist, has the hysterical quote "Satan's Pied Pipers in these final days are the heavy metal bands turning our children into witches and warlocks" (?!), and calls Shinto, the New Age movement, Mormonism and the Jehovah's Witnesses "tools of the devil." It's my favorite Chick tract... =========== From: DONTHEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real ice cream Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:26:59 Message Number 4865 That was by John Muir *publishing*, if I recall. The John Muir that it was named after (I have no doubt it's the same Muir, as one of his later followers was a man named Edward Abbey, who wrote a book called "The Monkeywrench Gang" that made "monkeywrench" into a transitive verb, as in the title of the book you refer to) died in the early 1900's, long before either credit cards or underground comics were around. He did contribute greatly to the formation of the Sierra Club and the U.S. Forest Service. =========== From: DONTHEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:30:56 Message Number 4866 Damn. I knew I had a serial, but I was looking in the wrong media. =========== From: DONTHEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:31:24 Message Number 4867 Well, you're wrong. "Rescue at Rigel" is NOT the same as "Rescue on Fractalus." "Rigel" was the first game in the "Starquest" series, a companion to Epyx's "Dunjonquest" game series. It used a similar display and command system to the Dunjonquest games (unlike the other game in "Starquest," which was a lot closer to "Crush, Crumble and Chomp"--I think it was called "Star Warrior"). "Rescue at Rigel" predates "Fractalus" by at least four years and is a straight RPG, plot and all, unlike Lucasfilm's insipid arcade game. I used to OWN both "Rigel" and "Star Warrior," in legimate copies, no less--Automated Simulations was one of the few companies that produced stuff I was willing to pay money for. Their $25 "Temple of Apshai" and sequel, "Hellfire Warrior", still stand as the two best real-time graphic fantasy games written, as far as I'm concerned. At any rate, make sure you have your facts straight before trying to rag me about computer game history. Just because both games start with the word "Rescue" does not make them remotely similar. =========== From: DONTHEN To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:41:55 Message Number 4868 > From what I've hear from anyone who tried AmigaDos before 1.2, you > couldn't get close enough to it to sneeze before it crashed.. I've used AmigaDos 1.0. That's kind of an exaggeration. It'll let you /start/ anything you want with no problem. Keeping applications going once they're launched was another matter.... =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:50:20 Message Number 4869 Acck! Not, Chick Publications. From the people who brought you "That Old Devil" comes other such fun filled and informative pamphlets like: "You are Evil and Will Die." I was looking at "That Old Devil" today. What a hoot. =========== From: RUFUS To: ANGEL Subject: New crusade Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:53:26 Message Number 4870 >Seems I had a large audience watching me throw my skirts over my head. Just /why/ were you throwing your skirt over your head? And do you do parties? :) =========== From: RUFUS To: ANGEL Subject: What I'm doing. Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:54:46 Message Number 4871 I'm not sure if they have angelcreme filled donuts. I do know that they force munchkins to drink stale, hot coffee, and excrete those little munchkins (a.k.a. donut holes). It's really a sick place. ....don't get me started on beanocide. =========== From: RUFUS To: SPELLWIND Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/21/90 18:56:21 Message Number 4872 Dude, there is a recycling place on 301! It's about one mile south of Turtle's on the east side of the road. Or look for one in the phone book. =========== From: RUFUS To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/21/90 19:04:42 Message Number 4873 The SAJW (actaully the SAJWM) can be set to other organizations, but a common target must be present. If you wanted to, say, aim for some Jewish folk, you'd have the purchase the Yamuka ID system. For Moonies, you just buy the "Small Flower/Bald Head" ID. Pear Dimples for Hairy Fishnuts. =========== From: RUFUS To: KEN OBER Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/21/90 19:10:52 Message Number 4874 How're you going to do it? PS2 it. =========== From: RAVEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: religion Date & Time: 05/21/90 19:19:46 Message Number 4875 I am a reincarnationist. Furthermore I feel that 'converting' on one's deathbed is useless. Such a change does not alter how one has spent one's life. =========== From: RAVEN To: RUFUS Subject: bungee Date & Time: 05/21/90 19:23:05 Message Number 4876 It has been done. It tends to weigh one hell of a lot. 6 feet is probably the longest practical. 25 feet, however, makes a great sling- shot. =========== From: RAVEN To: TURTLE Subject: Real ice cream Date & Time: 05/21/90 19:26:52 Message Number 4877 pthp =========== From: RAVEN To: SAURON Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/21/90 19:32:04 Message Number 4878 Deja Thoris - Princess of Mars - E. R. B. =========== From: RAVEN To: KEN OBER Subject: Bungee! Date & Time: 05/21/90 19:33:53 Message Number 4879 A cannonball perhaps? =========== From: DONTHEN To: SPELLWIND Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/21/90 21:57:54 Message Number 4880 What about religions which are fundamentally incompatible, say, Shintoism and Buddhism? Shinto teaches animism, which is something that True Buddhism (i.e., the earliest incarnation--"True Buddhism" is how scholars classify it) explicitly dismisses. In fact, True Buddhism is not a theistic belief system at all. =========== From: DONTHEN To: ALL Subject: Recap Date & Time: 05/21/90 22:04:44 Message Number 4881 The Wyvern's Den opened for business about an hour ago, after some rather nasty business last night involving two murders. One of them was a mad sorcerer married to Angel, a possibly immortal bard who may or may not possess a Cockney accent; the other one was a cat morph who looked like a skunk [for the uninformed, "morph" and "furry" are both terms, informal and even less formal, for anthropomorphic, fully sapient animals]. Captain Mulligan, the Ranean Guard officer assigned to investigate the murders, took away the ambassador for Crickersworld, the man who killed Angel's ex-husband; he came back this morning to get cold-cocked by Lt. "Acapulco" Gold, a dimensional traveller from what appears to be a future Earth. Lt. Gold came to Ranea by mistake and as yet isn't convinced that everything in the Wyvern's Den isn't an illusion. Meanwhile, some of the regulars--including Chip P. Unicorn, ambassador from some planet of horned horses, and Turtle, a hyperactive morph turtle with a somewhat limited attention span, have also shown up. Angel herself left hurriedly a few minutes ago, much to the dismay of Wezip, a fox morph who developed quite an affection for her throughout the events of last night. Meanwhile, a recap of the last few messages, retyped in excruciating slowness by yours truly: ---- Donthen, under extreme pressure, goes slightly beserk when Gold announces he's knocked out Mulligan. He charges the Sgt. (whoops, not Lt.--so sue me) with a broom, but is stopped by Wezip, who knocks all his wind out. Turtle endears himself to the barkeep by saying something stupid; Donthen wants to make him into an ashtray. Gold apologizes for any trouble he may have caused and decides that he might want to do a little "research." Meanwhile, a fifteen-year-old girl wanders through the door, asks for help, and faints. Chip points out that firearms are illegal on Ranea and Gold might want to hide his. =========== From: DONTHEN To: ALL Subject: Recap 2 Date & Time: 05/21/90 22:25:15 Message Number 4882 Turtle, who had been listening to Chip tell everyone how he had been recalled by his embassy, is distracted by Donthen's broom-waving and Gold's gun. He responds to the gun by telling a rambling story about a Metallica concert and a man yelling something about his grandmother crawling up his leg with a knife in her teeth; then he goes over to the girl and picks her up. She recovers, shocked by the fact she's being carried by a reptile, but introduces herself as Deva. Acapulco puts his .45 in his holster and stashes it in a portable hole Xonzoff produces, much to Gold's bewilderment; Gold says he's from Michigan and asks for a Bud light. Chip thinks he's talking about flowers. Meanwhile, Turtle calms down Deva, who is about 19 years old and from somewhere offworld, and is trying to remember something about someone (or something) named "Greywing." She remembers, finally, that Greywing is the name of a spaceship she was on; they had tried a dimensional travel system, and she ended up... here. She stops talking, presses her fingers to her head, and starts glowing pink. Chip, wandering back to Acapulco, deduces that the sergeant doesn't believe in magic. The sergeant, for his part, decides that Chip is a delusion, along with all the other talking animals. Turtle starts bouncing up and down at Gold's references to "the Team" and "classified information" and correctly guesses (apparently) how Gold got here, to which Gold makes no reply. Xonzoff brings coffee to Gold, telling him that magic and technology are not exclusive; the man seems skeptical. Then he goes over to Mulligan, who was brought inside the pub but is still unconscious. At this point, Mulligan sits up and blinks, focusses on Turtle, then on Gold, then on Donthen, who is now sitting quietly on a barstool, calm except for an occasional twitch in his left eyebrow. He asks Donthen for a reasonable explanation of what's going on, which the barkeep is unable to supply. =========== From: DONTHEN To: ALL Subject: Recap 3 Date & Time: 05/21/90 22:34:24 Message Number 4883 Mulligan examines Gold's uniform, deduces it's from offworld, and further assumes that Gold arrived by non-standard means (i.e., not through official channels). This, he decides, places Gold as the one most likely to have knocked him out, because he's the least likely to recognize the Guard as a theoretically beneficial police force and most likely to assume uniform = possible threat. He introduces himself to Gold. Gold returns the favor, trying to look as non-threatening as possible. Someone named Lord Valar comes in the story, starts making goo-goo eyes at Deva, and they wander off together never to be seen again for practical purposes, as Valar doesn't call here and Deva moved to Nevada. Mulligan explains the concept of dimensional displacement to Gold; Gold admits it's kind of logical but still seems skeptical. Angel comes through the door without speaking, instead guiding a group of three or four men who proceed to set up a piano, much to Donthen's consternation. Turtle makes the observation that the barkeep is turning a funny shade of red again. Angel puts a paper roll into the piano, evidently a player model, and "Feelings" starts playing. She gets a pained expression and rips it out. As everyone seems to be preoccupied, she gets herself a drink. Chip gets some sort of message about a shape-changing something that eats people, and unicorns too. Donthen crosses over to Angel and says, "I can't help but notice you've brought a large, ugly musical instrument into my tavern." She whirls on him and spews, "This is the finest I could find in this miserable little town. I wouldn't settle for some tinny, second-rate pian o. NO! Nothing but the best would do for my heroes. You miserable little twerp! Hah! Men! And Turtles, too!" Donthen turns a dramatic shade of purple, looks like he's about to say something, and then walks behind the bar and out of sight with a peculiarly baffled expression. =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/21/90 23:30:46 Message Number 4884 PS3 -- Picard is not a dweeb. Picard is smart enough to realize that you don't send your commanding crew as an away team to an un- explored planet... PS5 -- ST:TNG could do with losing Wesley, but not Picard. (Riker I can live without but I'm not that annoyed by him.) PS6 -- The DustBuster Phasers (tm) are cuter and more powerful than the older Type I's and Type II's of the original show... PS7 -- Warp engine technology admittedly needs help. PS8 -- A cloaking device? On a scientific research vessel? Why? I'm not that impressed by ST:TNG, but Lordy, even /I/ am willing to admit that on the whole it's usually better than, say, most of the third season originals... What I'd like to see is some of the original scriptwriters working on ST:TNG. (Harlan Ellison is one of the first to spring to mind...) Put good scriptwriters together with the special effects budget available to ST:TNG and /then/ you'd have something. --A Star Trek Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: Hey, dude! Date & Time: 05/21/90 23:39:16 Message Number 4885 I hate when that happens, too. :( =========== From: TURTLE To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/21/90 23:51:06 Message Number 4887 I ought to give a copy of XDIR to both you and Corwyn. XDIR impresses me...shows you ALL the file's attribute bits, lets you change 'em, displays hidden, R/O, and system files...and even has a "help" option. Interestingly enough, I've only seen XDIR on one other operating system (Z-System, in fact.) :> =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Date & Time: 05/21/90 23:56:40 Message Number 4888 I've /read/ "You Are Evil And Will Die." Another of my favorite Chick tracts is "This Was Your Life," which has a picture of the Grim Reaper approaching a construction worker on the top of a skyscraper and saying "Hi there!" Good stuff. --An easily amused Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: What I'm doing. Date & Time: 05/22/90 00:02:39 Message Number 4889 Of course, if Angel were to GO to that donut shop, and the manager were to ask why she was there at such an ungodly hour, and Angel were to TELL her, I wonder if she'd be believed. I swear it's not worth telling the truth when the person you're talking to doesn't believe you... "...carefully at the crullers." --An honest Turtle =========== From: SPELLWIND To: RUFUS Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/22/90 00:31:26 Message Number 4890 Thanks! Spellwind's been a little dull in the brain . =========== From: TREE BEARD To: RAVEN Subject: ect. Date & Time: 05/22/90 01:07:21 Message Number 4891 Certain religeons are more painfull to deal with than others, but certain realigions such as born again are just plain a pain in the ass. I believe in freedom of religion, as long as it does not harm someone else... Walden, Witman, ect. all. One of the least harmfull are the Wikka (sp.) And I don't mean to pick on any one group, but I believe born again christians, and christian scientists are the most harmfull. Many christian scientist's don't believe in MDs. There have been several cases where their children have died of illness because they would not take their childdren to the Doctor. Sacrificial lambs I guess. Now the problem with Born again christians is that the church tries to influence our goverment and us. There should be a seperation of church and state. I know that that is not completely possible, but every one should do their best. I have dated many women (and girls) of different religeons, including Born Again, Jahova Witnesses and a (supposed) witch, a catholic, and a protestant. My stepfather is a Reincarnationist and my mother is an Episcipal. Myself, I am Agnostic. I believe that when it's time, I will find my own personal god. And I will not force him or her on anyone. Discussion is fine. In fact without anyone elses view, we all would live in a very ignorant world. I'm glad you believe in reincarnation. In fact, I think that every one should be what, and who they want. As long as they harm no one and persecute no one else! If you want to find God, perhaps you should look at nature. It might be refreshing, unless there is a smog alert. Tree =========== From: ANGEL To: JONBOY Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/22/90 01:43:48 Message Number 4892 Not sure about your assertion that we have 'originals' of any of the books of the Bible, Old or New Testament. I've got several reference books around, I'll check on that ... but pretty sure for the Old Testament all the books are several centuries removed from the originals. New Testament there are no 'originals' surviving. I'm curious, which translation(s) do you use for your own studies? =========== From: ANGEL To: RUFUS Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/22/90 02:02:20 Message Number 4893 > Just /why/ were you throwing your skirt over your head? For the reason I do most bizarre things, it was in the script (and made a neat photo op). Alas, and alack, however, I shall not be performing such feats on the stage ... the show has nine wives and only can afford skirts for four. I lost out (sorry, guys, we will otherwise be propely attired from the waist down ... family show). =========== From: ANGEL To: DONTHEN Subject: they're back!!! Date & Time: 05/22/90 02:14:37 Message Number 4894 Yeah! Hurrah! Whoppee! Gadzooks! General rejoicing throughout the land! Bottoms up! Ranea is back! I've missed it so. Gets my vote for best Enteratainment/Media attraction in the area. Does this mean I have to post again? (Don't even consider trying to stop me!) Is there more re-cap coming? Seem to recall having a discussion with Gold, but can't remember what it was about... Donthen, have you considered a career in synopsizing? You do a lovely job. =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: SPELLWIND Subject: Xnty... Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:10:28 Message Number 4895 >Christianity is definitely political. There's a huge difference between Christianity -- the personal belief in Christ as "Savior from Sin" -- and the Christian Church. Granted: the Church has been extremely political throughout history. But -- the personal belief has never had to do with politics... in fact, the Bible indicates that one should be content no matter which political system you live in... Chip P. Unicorn (Just getting my $0.02 in...) =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: SPELLWIND Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:13:17 Message Number 4896 >What do you mean by 'Pagan' anyway? The dictionary definition of "Pagan" means anyone who is outside the Christian religion. (Possibly not including Jews -- though this is questionable. If it does include Jews, then Jesus was a Pagan (!)). Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TURTLE Subject: hack/cough Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:21:09 Message Number 4898 Milord Hacker Turtle, Is this honorific self-imposed, or doth there exist a "Royal Society of Hackerdom" that doth pass out these titles? Your humble servant, Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TURTLE Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:23:55 Message Number 4899 Aha! Now we know the truth! God is WASP, and Satan is Japanese. Makes perfect sense. Does it say that the United States is God's new Israel, that the Russians have had plans since 1983 to take over the U.S. between now and 1993, or that AIDS is God's punishment on the wicked? Or better yet, does it say that heaven is located in a "great empty space in the north in the nebula of Orion"? (Yes -- I'm completely serious!) All these, and more, from "88 Reasons Why The Rapture Will Be In 1988." Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: DONTHEN Subject: Real ice cream Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:31:28 Message Number 4900 Dear Donthen-- Sorry -- You're right. That was the publishing company -- and I'm not sure exactly who was the author, right now... Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: DONTHEN Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:32:55 Message Number 4901 Dear Donthen, I apologize. What WAS the final name for "Rescue at Fractalus," anyway? (Damn it -- why do you have to be right?) Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: RUFUS Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:35:08 Message Number 4902 Hmmm... Just thinking about my old Christian high school. They asked students to pass those tracts out... (I even might still be able to find one or two in Spanish -- which I learned some memory verses from.) Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TREE BEARD Subject: ect. Date & Time: 05/22/90 03:46:18 Message Number 4904 Dear Tree Beard, Hello, howdy, and welcome to aLTER rEALITY -- your slice of sanity in a world gone insane. How generous of you to allow us to believe as we will. Actually, the born again Christians aren't the only group that's trying to influence the government: I doubt there are any recognized religions that AREN'T trying to influence the government. Don't downgrade born again Christians by that... Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: THRUD To: KEN OBER Subject: brain usage Date & Time: 05/22/90 06:31:18 Message Number 4905 It's about time star fleet started promoting true scientific, cerebral types like Jean-Luc instead of muscle heads like Kirk. Picard's gray matter is so busy he doesn't even have time to grow hair. Some of us choose to fully utilize our neural synpses rather than waste time with follicle development. Ever notice what nice curls t.j.hooker had? I came in late - do I grok that ther'll be a NG movie before another ST movie ? I could do without wes, but love the cleavage queen.  =========== From: THRUD To: DONTHEN Subject: thrudness Date & Time: 05/22/90 06:40:04 Message Number 4906 No, I'm relatively new - 'bout a month. I used Thrud as my handle on the CB 15 years ago , then again for Showdoown at the Sawmill (before it flamed out). VafTHRUDner is a nordic frost giant. =========== From: DONTHEN To: ANGEL Subject: they're back!!! Date & Time: 05/22/90 08:36:16 Message Number 4907 Actually, that's it as far as recap, for the time being. I'll probably enter an actual real live post once I get my brain in gear. If you did have a conversation with Gold, I didn't find it (I was working from some printouts Raven had of the most recent messages--he was missing a few, but I think they were just 1 or 2 at the end, mostly dealing with Donthen turning purple when you spewed at him and wandering off looking perplexed). "A career in synopsizing"?.... =========== From: DONTHEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/22/90 08:39:16 Message Number 4908 Actually, I don't remember. I seem to recall playing a version of it that /was/ called "Rescue on Fractalus" but I don't know if that was a pre-release copy or not. "Koronis Rift" comes to mind, but I'm not sure if that was the renamed "Fractalus" or its virtually unknown sequel. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: TREE BEARD Subject: ect. Date & Time: 05/22/90 11:08:02 Message Number 4909 It seems impossible for someone to relate to and worship a god that soes his work from 'the universe'. He's supposed to be everywhere is a guilt trip for anyone who's done something wrong. Like Cuba's big broth- er, 'big father is watching'. yet, he's waiting in heaven... you go fig- ure. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: ANGEL Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/22/90 11:12:14 Message Number 4910 Now the Mormons are trying to get people to read ' Their book '. These are the people who used to kill off relatives to 'save them'? These Christians don't even follow the 10 fundemental rules of their religion! =========== From: SPELLWIND To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Xnty... Date & Time: 05/22/90 11:15:58 Message Number 4911 What I meant was- These countries that have not been free for a Long time (Romania---) have suddenly been invaded be christians converters and churchbuilders/ when that job is done, they brag on TV about their next conquests... And their covert attacks- poor countries like Ethiopia and the Christian Children's Fund- feeding while preaching... =========== From: SPELLWIND To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/22/90 11:20:12 Message Number 4912 I'm a witch, basically. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/22/90 11:21:25 Message Number 4913 Does everyone know Tofu is bean curd? =========== From: KEN OBER To: RAVEN Subject: Bungee! Date & Time: 05/22/90 13:19:53 Message Number 4914 Yes, a cannonball /may/ weigh down the Turtle enough... =========== From: KEN OBER To: TURTLE Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/22/90 13:21:13 Message Number 4915 > A cloaking device? On a scientific research vessel? Why? Maybe because they get attacked every other episode! The romulans and Klingons are smart enough to realize that, and they cloak /all/ of THEIR ships... =========== From: TURTLE To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Ynty... Date & Time: 05/22/90 14:27:21 Message Number 4916 >...in fact, the Bible indicates that one should be content no matter >which political system you live in... "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's," hmm? The Jehovah's Witnesses in particular take that particular commandment to believe that it is actually wrong for any "true Christian" ("true" being defines as "believing the way we do," I imagine) to participate in any political activity at all that's more involved than voting. True Christians of the born-again variety, on the other hand, generally seem to believe that that particular commandment has about as much relevance as a dead haddock if the Christian in question doesn't /like/ the political system in question. Ahh, the political complexes of a slave religion... =========== From: TURTLE To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real Pagans Date & Time: 05/22/90 14:33:41 Message Number 4917 >The dictionary definition of "Pagan" means anyone who is outside the >Christian religion. What the hell dictionary are /you/ using, Chip? The Random House Dictionary in my lap right now defines "Pagan" as "One of a people or community professing a polytheistic religion; a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim." Interestingly, it also defines "Pagan" as "an irreligious or hedonistic person," meaning (I guess) that it's possible to be an atheistic Pagan, something I find somewhat peculiar. --A literate Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: hack/cough Date & Time: 05/22/90 14:37:37 Message Number 4918 Generally, one becomes a "hacker" when someone who is already a hacker says "Dude! You're a pretty good hacker!" In any event, anyone who has ever (1) written an operating system; (2) hand-assembled a piece of code because it's faster than using an assembler; (3) disassembled someone else's operating system to see how it works; (4) written an assembler because he thought the ones on the market weren't good enough for his own use; (6) ported uucp or yacc or something equally ridiculous over to the Timex-Sinclair or some other equally ridiculous platform; (7) ported Unix over to some ridiculous platform; (8) written a routine to give him access to operating system core in FORTRAN-66; or any similar feat along those lines, is probably a hacker regardless of whether he's had the title conferred to him or not. In any event, the driving force behind the hacker mentality is that nothing should stand between him and full use of the computer he's on-- which is why hackers /never/ delete other people's files, damage the operating system, lock other people out of the computer, or crash computer systems; after all, if you've just formatted all the hard platters on this nice VAX 8800, you can't use it any more, can you? --A hacker Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: THRUD Subject: brain usage Date & Time: 05/22/90 14:49:44 Message Number 4919 What? You mean Kirk wasn't the brightest Starfleet captain in the known universe? (Gasp!) Actually, you have a point there...Kirk may have been able to kick a Gorn's ass singlehandedly, but when it came to using the ol' grey matter...you have to wonder if Spock did the mind-meld thing with him so often because it was so easy. "Gosh, there's a hostile planet down there. Lessee...I think we should beam down the commander, the first officer, the cheif medical officer, and the chief engineer to have a look. If we run into problems I'm sure the chief navigator and the chief helmsman will come down to bail us out..." On the other hand, Picard has a few handicaps himself, most notably Riker. Really, would you want this guy dating your sister? He has the originality of a grapefruit coupled with the razor-sharp wit of a box of Froot-Loops and the charm of a Klingon with hemorrhoids. Whorf impresses me, though: Picard doesn't have to be able to kick Kirk's ass, he could send Whorf to do it. --A Star Trek Turtle I'm also a big fan of Troi's...and I want to congratulate the man who designed her uniform...(!!) =========== From: TURTLE To: SPELLWIND Subject: Znty... Date & Time: 05/22/90 14:58:09 Message Number 4920 >And their covert attacks- poor countries like Ethiopia... I wouldn't call that a terribly covert activity, although I'm not sure I'd call it an attack either. On the other hand, the Pope did have the monumental gall to travel to Ethopia in 1988 and tell the people, starving because in most places their country can't produce enough food to feed everyone, that birth control is a sin. (Incidentally, that one won the Non-Sequitur of the Year Award for 1988. (I have to wonder why so many Non-Sequitur of the Year Awards go to religious statements...I've only been keeping them since 1985, and three of them so far have gone to statements of religious faith...)) On the other hand, to be perfectly fair I have to admit that the actions of people who claim to be Christians does not necessarily have any bearing on the validity of the Christian faith. People who profess to be one thing while actually being something else have been around for a long time. =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/22/90 15:03:20 Message Number 4921 >...they [Romulans & Klingons] cloak /all/ of THEIR ships... Like it really does them a whole lot of good...when was the last time you actually saw the Enterprise having very much difficulty tracking a cloaked ship?? You also don't know that they cloak /all/ their craft, because the only Romulan and Klingon ships we ever see are battle- ships. I can't recall any episodes in which the Enterprise encounters a Romulan research vessel... --A nit-picky Turtle =========== From: DONTHEN To: SPELLWIND Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/22/90 16:38:40 Message Number 4922 > Does everyone know Tofu is bean curd? Yes. =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Date & Time: 05/22/90 17:07:52 Message Number 4923 >I've /read/ "You Are Evil And Will Die." Whooa, hey...hold on..lemme get my brain back in place. Grubble grubble You've got to be yanking my tail about the "You Are Evil And Will Die" Tract. =========== From: RUFUS To: SPELLWIND Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/22/90 17:10:09 Message Number 4924 > Thanks! No problem, always happy to help out. > Spellwind's been a little dull in the brain . Noooooooooo! You're kiddin' me, right? =========== From: RUFUS To: ANGEL Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/22/90 17:13:02 Message Number 4925 When does this show open, what's it about, and will there be any farm animals? --------------------- What I'm /really/ looking forward to is Arnold Schartzencan'tspellhis -namerighters new movie, "Total Recall." Anyone care to make a journey to the thearte to view it June 1st. Midnight would be the best since you get to see the movie, and you get the added attraction of all the weird people there. I can't tolerate weird people. =========== From: RUFUS To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: SAJW & You Date & Time: 05/22/90 17:17:30 Message Number 4926 I /always/ lose out when it comes to free propaganda. I don't know what it is, but I can never find those things. People could be standing on every street in the world except one, and that one street would be the one I happened to be on at the time. Grrrr..... =========== From: RUFUS To: KEN OBER Subject: Bungee! Date & Time: 05/22/90 17:21:10 Message Number 4927 A cannonball will weigh down the turtle, but why waste a perfectly fine cannonball when an IBM is handy?! ...bet that's the last time Chip brings his IBM to a con. =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: DONTHEN Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/22/90 18:30:14 Message Number 4928 Wow.. maybe you had AmigaDos 1.0b - they progressed. =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: TURTLE Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/22/90 18:42:09 Message Number 4929 So does JDir - JiffyDir - originally written in Pascal - currently being ported to 'C' Proud Author (Well proud when I'm not looking at my kludgey code) - ME =========== From: YNGLING To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: Volvos Date & Time: 05/22/90 19:51:36 Message Number 4930 Dearest Lady, But will you look good driving it? (the most important feature) The Yngling "She was a fast machine, she kept her motor clean, she was the best damn woman that I'd ever seen..." -AC/DC =========== From: SPELLWIND To: TURTLE Subject: Troi Date & Time: 05/22/90 20:14:31 Message Number 4931 She's a greek. Greek women are usually very beautiful women. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: RUFUS Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/22/90 20:18:20 Message Number 4932 Watch for Aliens III =========== From: ANGEL To: SPELLWIND Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/23/90 00:19:05 Message Number 4933 > the Mormons ... these are the people who used to kill of relatives > to 'save them'? Hmmmm. I'm not too well-versed in the Mormon faith, but I don't think killing family members was ever a part of their established doctrine. =========== From: ANGEL To: TURTLE Subject: Riker Date & Time: 05/23/90 00:25:04 Message Number 4934 At the top of my objections to Riker is the fact that he's just too damn pretty (but not as gorgeous as he thinks he is). That face needs to be mauled or scarred. And for heaven's sake keep any mirrors or reflective surfaces off the bridge or you'll never get any work out of him. =========== From: ANGEL To: RUFUS Subject: Arnold Date & Time: 05/23/90 00:28:54 Message Number 4935 Gee, "Total Recall" opens June 1st! Somehow that grand premiere didn't make it onto my calendar. Tell me, do these weird midnight people do Arnold Schwartzenagger (?) look-alike contests? And who'd have the nerve to tell a look-alike that he lost? =========== From: ANGEL To: ANGEL Subject: originals Date & Time: 05/23/90 00:32:52 Message Number 4936 Okay, here's what I've been able to find since yesterday re: oldest surviving biblical manuscripts... Prior to the Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls) discoveries, oldest Old Testament manuscripts was the Leningrad manuscript of the prophets, dated A.D. 916. Oldest surviving New Testaments are the Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus (both approximately A.D. 340). Oldest surviving fragment of New Testament is a portin of Gospel of John coming from Egypt, usually dated before A.D. 150. What has so far been identified from Qumran are manuscripts dating from between 200 B.C. and A.D. 68. Portions of all Old Testament Books except for Esther have been found at Qumran. One fragment of the Book of Leviticus tentatively dating back to the 5th century B.C. was also discovered there. The Leviticus fragment may be the oldest Biblical manuscript in existence. Okay, that's what I was able to come up with. Have you got some more current information, or perhaps a few 'original' versions of the gospels or the Pentatuech in your attic? As far as Biblical scholars are concerned, there are at least several centuries seperating our extant copies of Biblical texts from the 'originals'. =========== From: SPELLWIND To: ANGEL Subject: Spelling Date & Time: 05/23/90 01:50:55 Message Number 4937 It's Schwarznegger. =========== From: THRUD To: TURTLE Subject: brain usage Date & Time: 05/23/90 06:36:12 Message Number 4938 Don't get me wrong, Kirk had some good points. After all, he did save the earth, the federation,this dimension and the entire universe at least half a dozen times. On the other hand, he's been duplicatied, replicated, possessed, lost in space, split in half, had his mind float around in a lava lamp and made to wear an ugly dress while inhabiting a womans body. Toss in the times he had to wear belts\ wristbands/collars of control (SILENCE, THRALL!) and you'd have to be a god (or at least a Danish frost giant) to not go off the deep end. Triv :  In the NG episode where Picard took shore leave, met the nice lady and looked for an artifact from the future, name the institute to which she was (alledgedly) going to donate the artifact, and where have we heard that name before ? LLAP =========== From: THRUD To: SPELLWIND Subject: Troi Date & Time: 05/23/90 06:46:19 Message Number 4939 Death conspired will come into full effect Charge given and journey to death Elected, created , received by his own undone Blood of the innocent before them in remorse. Translated : Don't flame the cleavage queen. =========== From: DONTHEN To: ANGEL Subject: Arnold Date & Time: 05/23/90 08:28:37 Message Number 4940 Well, "Total Recall" is directed by Paul Voerhoven ("Robocop"), written by Dan O'Bannon & Ronald Shussett ("Alien", "Dark Star") and based on a novel by Piers Anthony which was, in turn, an expansion of a Philip K. Dick story called "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale." Schwartzenhefferhooferheifer has proven he can be a good actor when he doesn't get a chance to be involved with the script (even more so when he doesn't get to say anything, like "Terminator", which wasn't really an Arnie S. movie despite his top billing); with people like that behind him--especially Voerhoven, who seems about as likely to knuckle under to a star as David Lynch would be--it has a lot of promise. It has a good chance, in fact, of going completely over the heads of the normal action/adventure audience and disappearing pretty quickly for a big budget, big name flick. =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: DONTHEN Subject: thermodynamics Date & Time: 05/23/90 08:42:38 Message Number 4941 Hmmm... when I was in a Radio Quack store, I saw a copy of Koronis Rift -- looked exactly like "Fractalus" on the box, except that it was put out by Epyx. Hmmm... Dunno. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: SPELLWIND Subject: Xnty... Date & Time: 05/23/90 08:44:43 Message Number 4942 Dear Spellwind, Romania has been suddenly invaded by Christians? (Incredulous glare...) Stop for a second -- for how many hundreds of years has Christianity been existing in Romania? (At least fifteen hundred -- maybe seventeen or eighteen...) It came real close to having been visited by Paul... (within one hundred miles, in fact...) My point: if anything, the Christians are helping bring back the culture that was taken away by the Russians' invasion of about fifty years ago... Chip P. Unicorn Yes -- I know. It's probably a different kind of Christianity than what they had fifty years ago... But from it, they can easily re- construct -- and pick and choose. =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TURTLE Subject: Znty... Date & Time: 05/23/90 09:01:31 Message Number 4945 Okay.. I'll bite. What were the other four non-sequiter awards given since 1985? Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: RUFUS Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/23/90 09:03:20 Message Number 4946 >...and you get the added attraction of all the weird people there. I >can't tolerate weird people. ??? =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: SPELLWIND Subject: Troi Date & Time: 05/23/90 09:05:30 Message Number 4947 >Green women are usually very beautiful women. Yes, but Italians can cook! Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Troi Date & Time: 05/23/90 10:35:08 Message Number 4948 Chip quoted: >Green women are usually very beautiful women. He wrote: Yes, but Italians can cook! Chip what do Trollops have to do with italians? Have you seen any green women that aren't Trollops? - Corwyn =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: God... Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:14:57 Message Number 4949 How nice...So, how've you been? :) The Lady =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: SPELLWIND Subject: -- Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:16:31 Message Number 4950 This is true....so, you didn't answer....are you back in school? I'm doing well...glad to hear you are okay, too. -The Lady In Black =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: TURTLE Subject: God... Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:23:57 Message Number 4951 No NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! The ".s" was an accident...I forgot where I was...now, re-read the first post and figure out which doesn't belong! It's a test of your intellect...heheheheh....QED! -The Lady =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: RAVEN Subject: God... Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:26:58 Message Number 4952 :> Like I can remember the messages from that far back! Ghods! I jave that should read HAVE...trouble remembering my name! So...at least you passed the intellect test thing. Keep in touch.... ......The Lady =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: God... Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:29:34 Message Number 4953 :> (The Lady In Black) =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: JONBOY Subject: Xnty... Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:33:27 Message Number 4954 BTW, when are we going to get together? -The Lady :> =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: TURTLE Subject: Hey, dude! Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:34:50 Message Number 4955 You forgot the QED! QED! THE LADY =========== From: BLACK MAGIC To: TURTLE Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/23/90 11:35:31 Message Number 4956 BLah blah, blah.... =========== From: DONTHEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Troi Date & Time: 05/23/90 13:59:12 Message Number 4957 He said GREEK women, not GREEN women. I assume Green women are no more statistically likely to be pretty than the females of any other radical political party. =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Date & Time: 05/23/90 15:12:45 Message Number 4958 No, I'm not. (Yanking your tail, that is.) The re really is a Chick tract along the lines of "You Are Evil and Will Die..." although I think it's actually called something like "You Have Sinned ANd Will Die" or some such thing. The idea is certainly the same. I may actually have a copy of it, but I really don't feel like digging through my religious propaganda file searching for it. --A pack-rat Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Bungee! two! Date & Time: 05/23/90 15:21:56 Message Number 4959 >...why waste a perfectly fine cannonball when an IBM is handy?! Two reasons: (1) The cannonball is more destructive. (2) It'd be a waste of a perfectly good terminal. Of course, the IBM is prettier than a cannonball, but with a little paint, some glitter, and a couple of bows we could fix that. Pretty /and/ destructive...I like it! =========== From: TURTLE To: ANGEL Subject: Invalidation Date & Time: 05/23/90 15:25:46 Message Number 4960 Whoops! I didn't intend to reply to this message, but I've done hit "R" so I guess I'm stuck with it. Have you ever wondered what would happen if the light output of the sun diminished to the equivalent of one of those yellow Bug Lights that people put in their porch light fixtures to attract bugs? (Everyone would squint, of course, but I mean beyond that.) I imagine Bug Light sales would probably decline because people might associate General Electric with the fact that they can't wear their favorite mirrored sunglasses and still see where they're going any more, unless GE were to react with a massive publicity campaign (GE: We bring good things to life and we didn't turn down the sun). I'm not sure what effect it would have on the futures market, though. --A squinting Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: ANGEL Subject: Riker Date & Time: 05/23/90 15:31:15 Message Number 4961 >At the top of my objections to Riker is the fact that he's just too >damn pretty... What a...peculiar objection. >That face needs to be mauled or scarred. Say, by a rogue Sumo Klingon assassin posing as Troi? I must admit, I'm starting to worry about your newly-acquired violent streak...perhaps you ought to trade it in for a Volvo or something. =========== From: TURTLE To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: Not God... Date & Time: 05/23/90 15:46:18 Message Number 4962 >No NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! Yes YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!! >The ".s" was an accident... I know. I was being aggravating. :P >...Now go back, re-read the message, and figure out which one doesn't >belong! The second one from the left. It's the only one that's smirking because it's just placed a pirhana in its sister's aquarium, filled with beautiful and exotic fish from around the world (and all available to yo direct from Fish-of-the-Month Club, the ONLY club that offers one free fish with every fish you buy! No obligation, cancel any time; thirteen fish for only one cent when you enroll!), and is gleefully awaiting the accompanying hysterics. --A Turtle-of-the-month club Main Selection Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: Hey, dude! Date & Time: 05/23/90 15:51:44 Message Number 4963 >You forgot the QED! No I didn't; I was just saving it for a more appropriate time. QED. Oh, yeah, while we're on the subject: When are we going to work on that -deleted- Pascal vortex of insanity masquerading as a program? =========== From: KEN OBER To: TURTLE Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/23/90 16:24:30 Message Number 4964 TURTLE> Romulan research vessel.... Romulans don't /do/ the Research thing -- But I remember an episode of TNG that has a Romulan research vessel crossing into the neutral zone, and Picard said "Well, they're a research vessel, so we can threaten to fire on 'em." And the Romulan's cloaked themselves, and when a war ship came away, Picard did what he usually does -- ran away just like a whimp... =========== From: KEN OBER To: RUFUS Subject: Bungee! Date & Time: 05/23/90 16:26:43 Message Number 4965 Good idea -- AN IBM! Hey everyone! It was awards day at our school, and I got the award for "Best Programmer" in the entire school -- I beat out all the Juniors and Seniors -- I think my teacher admired how I changed the prompt on DOS to mush-dos, made bogus auto-exec files to protect my work, made everything that /could/ involve it Read-Only, then rename the command to make files deletable/changeable to something entirely different, and protect the entire DOS directory so it couldn't be deleted -- My teacher /still/ can't figure out how to fix the prompt -- HEHEH! And neither can anyone else! I guess she liked my knowledge of Pascal as well... =========== From: RUFUS To: SPELLWIND Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/23/90 18:03:41 Message Number 4966 I'll be rabid for Aliens III (or is it Alien III, or Alienses?) after I see "Total Recall." BTW, you know when Aliens III will be out? =========== From: RUFUS To: ANGEL Subject: Arnold Date & Time: 05/23/90 18:05:07 Message Number 4967 I don't know if these "weird midnight people" do Arnold look-alike contests. When I saw TMNT at midnight, 1/2 the theatre was full of drunken folk screaming "Cowabunga" and "Gee, those turtles aren't real" and other silly comments. Don't even ask about the heavy metal concert that got routed into the Denny's. ...last time I saw a turtle at a midnight movie was Heavy Metal. =========== From: RUFUS To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/23/90 18:10:56 Message Number 4968 > ??? Same to you, Bud! In fact, eat hot punctuation. ! ? . and a , to grow an inch. =========== From: RUFUS To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: God... Date & Time: 05/23/90 18:13:44 Message Number 4969 >I have trouble remembering my name! So I have a valid excuse when it takes me two or three tries to get it right. =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Date & Time: 05/23/90 18:15:27 Message Number 4970 Sometimes I boggle myself. I've nearly boggled myself to death. --- On a totally unrelated track (or is that tract), have you seen the comic "Invaders from Home" from Piranha Press? Really funny. =========== From: DONTHEN To: KEN OBER Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/23/90 18:58:20 Message Number 4971 Saying Kirk could kick Picard's butt is like saying Patton could kick Jacques Cousteau's butt. It doesn't matter whether he could or not, I'd still rather have Cousteau leading the exploratory mission I was on. If you don't like ST:TNG, feel free to go back to all those great, intellectually challenging shows like "Kirk and the Planet of Greek Gods", "Kirk and the Planet of Dippy Hippies", "Kirk and Yet Another Planet with Hyperintelligent Globes of Light That Humans Can Feel Superior To After 60 Minutes Anyway", etc. There were a few old ST episodes that TNG still can't touch, but an average "new" episode outshines an average "old" episode in per capita intelligence, not just advanced special effects. =========== From: RAVEN To: TREE BEARD Subject: ect. Date & Time: 05/23/90 19:56:01 Message Number 4972 Yipe! Your spelling and grammer is worse than mine! That aside, your view is actually the prelevant one on this board. We just enjoy arguing. (At least I do.) -Raven- =========== From: RAVEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: ect. Date & Time: 05/23/90 20:02:54 Message Number 4973 Why can't we. _B_orn _A_gain _C_hristians (or bocas for short) are second only to new agers to having their foot in theirs. Besides, the get so wonderfully riled up when you believe something not written in the bible, or, for that matter, a section of the bible that they are ignoring. New agers, on the other hand, are'nt any fun to poke at, as they are unable to react (something about not having a central nervous system, I believe). A kick back and watch the sparks fly Raven. =========== From: RAVEN To: SPELLWIND Subject: 10 Date & Time: 05/23/90 20:11:27 Message Number 4974 So what's your point? =========== From: RAVEN To: RUFUS Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/23/90 20:16:24 Message Number 4975 YES!! 9 days left! It looks like it may be on par w. Do androids dream of electric sheep. Fun. a SF movie fan Raven =========== From: RAVEN To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: God... Date & Time: 05/23/90 20:26:19 Message Number 4976 Intellect test? I got the test, but lost my intellect. Oh, how has the painful programming project gone? -Raven- =========== From: THRUD To: DONTHEN Subject: green women Date & Time: 05/23/90 21:39:04 Message Number 4977 Should we presume that Jane Fonda is representative of all red women ? =========== From: THRUD To: THE MANAGEMENT Subject: telix Date & Time: 05/23/90 21:42:41 Message Number 4978 As long as this area is empty, I'll assume I can leave you a note here. I switched to telix about 2 weeks ago, and thereafter wasn't able to call you - I'd connect, but then I'd get gargbage and symbols. Then for the hell of it, I thought I'd try my old term program, flashlink - and there you were. I tried telix again, no dice. why do you think that is ? Adiou =========== From: ANGEL To: DONTHEN Subject: Arnold Date & Time: 05/23/90 22:09:43 Message Number 4979 Which Anthony novel was the new Schwartzeneidernetherneithernoogie movie based on? (tsk, tsk .... Upon which ....was the movie based. What you have to through to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition!) =========== From: ANGEL To: TURTLE Subject: Riker Date & Time: 05/23/90 22:16:33 Message Number 4980 No need to be concerned, no new violent streak has appeared ... I want disfigured, but not hurt. It's the 23rd century (or thereabouts) the technology for facial scarring has advanced tremendously. You can have multiple dueling scars without a single drop of blood or even a fencing lesson. =========== From: RUFUS To: RAVEN Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/23/90 23:00:10 Message Number 4981 So, should we make this a pilgramig (gee, I wish I had mastered the art of spelling) to see Arnie in action, not to mention what appear to be really good FX and even better one-liners? =========== From: RUFUS To: ANGEL Subject: Arnold Date & Time: 05/23/90 23:02:54 Message Number 4982 What's with this new trend of making Arnie's name as long as we can? Arnold SchwartzenIcantspellhisnamesoilljuststringtogetherwordswithout- anypunctuationorspaces is not /that/ hard to spell. ...oop OP oop OP OP, oop OP walla walla bing bang =========== From: RUFUS To: ANGEL Subject: Riker Date & Time: 05/23/90 23:05:40 Message Number 4983 In the 23rd century they use the transporter to transport scars onto the skin. No muss, no fuss. ...set phasers on emasculate. =========== From: TURTLE To: KEN OBER Subject: Not Bungee! Date & Time: 05/24/90 00:16:20 Message Number 4984 You'd be scary with a real operating system, Son. ...but I forget. You use AmigaDOS. ARE you scary with a real operating system? =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Denny Date & Time: 05/24/90 00:17:38 Message Number 4985 Hey, Rufus, what about the heavy metal concert that got routed into Denny's? (And was it a good group, and were people yelling and smashing things and behaving like drunken fools, and if so, why wasn't I there?) =========== From: TURTLE To: RAVEN Subject: ect. Date & Time: 05/24/90 00:20:31 Message Number 4986 he problem with New Agers isn't their lack of a central nervous system, it's the remarkable fluidity of their beliefs. Trying to pin down a New Ager to a specific point is about as frustrating as trying to nail Jell-O to a cross...it just keeps oozing away. I hate when that happens--it gets all over my shoes. =========== From: TURTLE To: THRUD Subject: telix Date & Time: 05/24/90 00:23:33 Message Number 4987 Ghods, I have NO idea why Telix is giving you conniptions. I've long since given up trying to diagnose weird problems IBM users have this board--half the users I talk to have all sorts of bizzare problems that seem to be confined to the world of MS-DOS, for reasons that are remarkable in their crystalline opacity. Just at a guess, I'd say you didn't have Telix set to 8N1 (8-bit words, no parity, one stop bit), but I dunno. Several users here use Telix without difficulty, though, so the problem shouldn't be a terminal one... =========== From: TURTLE To: ANGEL Subject: Arnold Date & Time: 05/24/90 00:26:11 Message Number 4988 >What you have to through to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition! Or use complete sentences, even. Anyway, "Total Recall" the movie is based on a book also called "Total Recall." C'est obvious, n'est pas? =========== From: TREE BEARD To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: generous Date & Time: 05/24/90 01:14:09 Message Number 4990 Poor wording.. Ive been accused of being a smartass all my life because half the time I speak before thinking. Anyway, you are very correct in that all recognized religeons try to influence the goverment. And I should not have picked out Born Again Christians for doing what every other one is doing or trying to do. But, I went to several B.A. Christain churches, and all I heard about was how they were going to send so and so to DC to rally for anti-abortion. And when a president of the united states claims to be born again, I think it's gon a little to far. Free speach should be for everyone, not just for those with no taxes who can afford to send people to Washington via plane, train, and auto. Tree =========== From: TREE BEARD To: SPELLWIND Subject: ect. misstood Date & Time: 05/24/90 01:21:44 Message Number 4991 What I mean by looking around for god everywhere, especially inside yourself, and in Nature is not a Wellian Big Brother, but rather a Druidic god. Not a vengfull god, nor a god who requires sacragices, but a god who created this wonderfull universe. I don't have any documentation on this, but Ive heard that nearly every astronuat who has gone up into space has come back believing in god. Some kind of god. I figure that this is heaven, and hell. It's whatever you make of it. LIFE.. (no not that mag.) See ya in the clover patch TRee. =========== From: TREE BEARD To: RAVEN Subject: grammatical vie Date & Time: 05/24/90 01:28:07 Message Number 4992 My English teacher told me I was one of the best in the class as far as Creativity... spelling and grammer can go the way of Shakespear (sp.) I'm more for Mark Twain... By the way, thats were I get my views from, reading.. And I love argueing, If only once, I would win! Over the dale and through the woods, TRee =========== From: TREE BEARD To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: >Green Date & Time: 05/24/90 01:36:02 Message Number 4993 Never saw a real live Green women, but Ill bet she can cook to! Tree =========== From: TREE BEARD To: RUFUS Subject: skirts II Date & Time: 05/24/90 01:44:18 Message Number 4994 They (Siscal and Ubert thats who) said that the summer of '89 was the year of sequals, But I think its the summer of '90,'91,'92 ect. all. probably this year if they can make a buck or 5.50 on it! Is this live, or a sequal Tree. =========== From: DM2 To: TURTLE Subject: Invalidation Date & Time: 05/24/90 04:39:11 Message Number 4995 I must be tired. That made sense. ---A crosseyed DM =========== From: DM2 To: RUFUS Subject: TMNT Date & Time: 05/24/90 04:42:03 Message Number 4996 RUFUS: Just be glad that there wasn't anyone in there wearing a long black cloak, heavy makeup and high-heeled boots. ---a Rocky Horror non-virgin =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: KEN OBER Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/24/90 07:27:26 Message Number 4997 Picard occasianally fuctions according to common sense, which Kirk rarely did, (on the show anyway) and then had to be bailed out by some incredible coincidence. When he could have just avoided the whole thing] quite easily. (I hate it when you watch a show, and realize characters are doing stupid things, simply to give the show a plot) Anyway, I liked both, but Kirk definitely was an idiot more often than not. Kill Riker and Wesley... everyone else is tolerable. >> Both Worf and Data are great characters << - Corwyn =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: RAVEN Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/24/90 07:37:53 Message Number 4998 > do androids dream of electic sheep. We showed that on campus the week-end of the con, Willow too, you missed in... hahahaha.. of course you /did/ go to Oasis.. - Corwyn =========== From: CORWYN OF AMBER To: THRUD Subject: telix Date & Time: 05/24/90 07:40:11 Message Number 4999 Make sure the baud rate is set for 1200 in the dialing directory, and comm parameters are set of N-8-1, your old term may have had auto-buad detection as the default.. you can turn it on again in telix if you like -- it's turned off so poeple with high speed modems locked at 9600 buad won't have problems.. anyway, to turn it on: Hit Alt - O (For options) Select "Modem and dialing" Hit 'M' for Auto Baud detect Change to 'Yes' and telix will set the current baud by reading the 'Conect xxx' string. BTW I assume you're using Telix 3.12 - if you're not, call The Shadow @ 359-1717 and get it.. it's worth the time. Hope this works! - Corwyn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: ALL Subject: Griffin dormant Date & Time: 05/24/90 10:32:12 Message Number 5000 Why are most of my friends WEIRD? =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: Troi Date & Time: 05/24/90 10:32:58 Message Number 5001 >Have you seen any green women that aren't Trollops? You obviously haven't seen Barbara after she tasted some of my cooking. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: BLACK MAGIC Subject: God... Date & Time: 05/24/90 10:33:46 Message Number 5002 I've been doing okay physically, and I've been going insane, mentally. (Do NOT, under any circumstances, ever take three courses with the same professor.... ooooh, my head!) Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TURTLE Subject: Invalidation Date & Time: 05/24/90 10:49:22 Message Number 5003 Dear Turtle, I was giving a post-modern Turtle-spew in response to that message, but in the middle of the message a "BTM" light began flashing on my modem's dashboard, so I looked it up in the modem manual and read "Bad Taste Monitor." The modem refused to allow me to type anymore. So I won't re-type the message linking a bug light for the sun, pollution, gyroscopes, and fruit flies. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: RUFUS Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/24/90 10:54:51 Message Number 5004 Dear Rufus comma After having eaten my punctuation comma what do I do now question mark Should I do like that fellow on the Electric Company dash the person who does audible punctuation question mark Anxiously awaiting comma Chip P period Unicorn P period S period My name isn apostrophe t Bud period =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: RAVEN Subject: ect. Date & Time: 05/24/90 10:59:22 Message Number 5005 The New Age philosophy seems to be, "Well, maybe if we all worship whoever we want, then maybe we can all call it a religon." Nice "feel- good" idea -- but terrible if you want some meat mixed in with the milk and honey. The problem I've had (yes -- this was even before I moved in with Todd) with B.A.C's is that they might have SOME basis for their religion -- the Bible -- which they insist is provably true, and never examine the facts closely enough to check their proofs. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: ANGEL Subject: Arnold Date & Time: 05/24/90 11:05:38 Message Number 5007 A preposition should never be used to end a sentence with. I believe the novel was titled "Total Recall" (makes sense, no?) -- based on the Phillip K. Dick story "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale." Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: TREE BEARD Subject: generous Date & Time: 05/24/90 11:09:19 Message Number 5008 Dear Tree Beard, I'm still confused: what's, really, wrong with a President claiming to be born-again? We haven't yet had an athiestic President (and so far we've only had one Catholic) -- but the Presidents tend to be whatever is one of the larger religions in the country. Also, I assume we're both talking about the same President: Jimmy Carter. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: CHIP P. UNICORN To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/24/90 11:15:01 Message Number 5009 Oh, don't kill off both Riker and Wesley... the show NEEDS some humor. Chip P. Unicorn =========== From: DONTHEN To: THRUD Subject: green women Date & Time: 05/24/90 11:30:21 Message Number 5010 > Should we presume that Jane Fonda is representative of all red women ? Well, we could, but it's not likely. "Liberal" <> "Communist." ^ ("not equal" in BASIC) =========== From: DONTHEN To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: ST & ST:TNG Date & Time: 05/24/90 11:34:22 Message Number 5011 Give Wesley a break already. He stopped being a twit at the end of the first season (when Wil Wheaton went to the producers and said "if my character saves the Enterprise once more, I'm leaving"), and has, on occasion, shown signs of being a pretty interesting character--on most of the shows of this season when he's had anything to do, in fact, and on the episode where he and Picard had to travel to the same planet in a shuttlecraft. Wesley is more of an actual CHARACTER than Tasha Yar ever was -- the only episode she ever did anything interesting in was after she was dead, and that episode wasn't good because of any dramatic revelations about her: when your character is cardboard, you can't look into it too deeply by definition.... =========== From: DONTHEN To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Griffin dormant Date & Time: 05/24/90 11:37:37 Message Number 5012 Like attracts like. =========== From: KEN OBER To: TURTLE Subject: Not Bungee! Date & Time: 05/24/90 12:56:18 Message Number 5013 > You use AmigaDOS. ARE you scary with a real operating system? I a word: YUP! heheheh -- I've made afew modifications -- I can't wait 'til I get C! I can write my own AmyDOS commands, then! hehehehe -Ken Ober- =========== From: YNGLING To: DONTHEN Subject: Questions... Date & Time: 05/24/90 13:33:47 Message Number 5014 Donthen - Yes, but will Lithuania miss Sammy? Did Sammy support Lithuanian democracy? Am I still running a fever from my strep throat? The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: SPELLWIND Subject: - Date & Time: 05/24/90 13:37:11 Message Number 5015 You oughta look at a man's face before ya hang him. - Clint (again) Squint Like Clint Trivia: what was his first role in a motion picture? =========== From: YNGLING To: TURTLE Subject: Puzzles... Date & Time: 05/24/90 13:40:31 Message Number 5016 Something that puzzles me.. perhaps a bbsing Catholic can answer this: It used to be a sin to eat meat on Friday but now its not (except during Lent), right? So what if I died while eating a cheeseburger on a Friday back when it was a sin? I'd be burning and turning, right? So now that its not a sin, would I get out of Hell free without passing Go and without collecting $200? Or do I have to keep suffering even though its no longer a sin? The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: ANGEL Subject: What? Date & Time: 05/24/90 13:45:32 Message Number 5017 Dearest Angel, I missed this skirts over the head display. Did you get paid for it? How much? Will you, like, do this for ANYONE who can come up with an equivalent amount of $$$? Exactly /what/ were you promoting? :> The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: JONBOY Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/24/90 13:50:45 Message Number 5018 "Let this much be said; and further let us affirm what seems to be the truth, that, whether one is or is not, one and the others in relation to themselves and one another, all of them, in every way, are and are not, and appear to be and appear not to be." -Parmenides I love to toss this out (I memorized it about ten years ago) but seldom get to use it, and you mentioned Socrates, so............ The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: JONBOY Subject: Doghouse Date & Time: 05/24/90 13:57:20 Message Number 5019 Jonboy - I am at the Doghouse (remember when it was Dick's Doghouse?) all the time. I seldom miss Taco Nite ( cant stand 'em personally but my wife and brother love em so I go along for the beer ). Seek me out and I'll buy the first pitcher! The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: SAURON Subject: bras Date & Time: 05/24/90 14:03:09 Message Number 5020 Sauron, I dont own a bra...think I should buy one? CAn I just borrow one from my wife and see if I like it first? The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: DONTHEN Subject: D.T. Date & Time: 05/24/90 14:05:45 Message Number 5021 Donthen! I /hope/ you were kidding when you said you couldnt remember who Dejah Thoris was/is! The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Correction Date & Time: 05/24/90 14:11:00 Message Number 5022 Chip, Ummm I hate to be picky but it was "The Number of the Beast" not "The Mark of the Beast" and Deety's husband was Zebadiah J. Carter, not Z.E. Smith....but other than that you were close...except the protagon- ist in the Barsoom series was also named Carter...and I dont think his first initial was E. (but I might be wrong about /that/)....other than that you were right on the mark. The Yngling =========== From: YNGLING To: SPELLWIND Subject: Arrgh! Date & Time: 05/24/90 14:19:11 Message Number 5023 Not you too! Edgar Rice Burroughs is doing cartwheels in his grave. Doesnt anyone read the classics anymore? Is the golden age of Science Fiction forgotten? The Yngling "All fled, all gone, So lift me on the pyre. The feast has ended and the lamps expire." -Robert E. Howard (found on a sheet of paper in his type- writer after his suicide) =========== From: DONTHEN To: YNGLING Subject: D.T. Date & Time: 05/24/90 15:01:10 Message Number 5024 No, I said I was confused. I never really did the Barsoom thing, to use a Turtle-ism, so it's not something that would come to mind all that easily. I'm sure Sauron will say something obnoxious to me in retaliation for having a low PQ (Pulp Quotient). =========== From: DONTHEN To: YNGLING Subject: Arrgh! Date & Time: 05/24/90 15:03:36 Message Number 5025 Golden Age of sf? _Burroughs?_ Next thing you'll be telling me that Hugo Gernsback did a GOOD THING for the field by starting to publish it in his predecessor to Radio-Electronics, and firmly establishing it in the "penny dreadful" writing category with cheap printing, lurid covers, and a pulp image it's still fighting to escape from some sixty years later. And what did sf fen do? They went and named the third most important sf award after him (behind the Nebula and the Campbell award, at least in my ranking). For the sort of thing ERB was writing, it's really good, but it's still barbaric fantasy ala Conan in sf trappings. Olaf Stapledon, Ward Moore, Alfred Bester, Ted Sturgeon--these were the ones pushing sf's envelope forward. Stapledon was doing it at the same time Asimov was starting his writing engine with the first "Foundation" books, too. P.S.: and if you're looking for barbaric fantasy, Fritz Leiber still did it better with "Fafhrd & Grey Mouser" than Burroughs & Howard could have done in a collaboration. =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Denny Date & Time: 05/24/90 16:00:55 Message Number 5026 Well, only the spectators made it to Dennys, the group probably ended up at a Perkins, where they met they're new member, who was a biker ex-con. Anyways, they were load, but there wasn't a whole lot of destruction. On the way out they asked me if I had just gotten married. I don't know why. ...of course, the fact I had a tux on could have been it. =========== From: RUFUS To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: skirts Date & Time: 05/24/90 16:08:18 Message Number 5027 You can be replaced period No one likes a wise ass open parentheses or a unicorn for that matter close parentheses period ellipse spelling is not my forte period =========== From: TURTLE To: DM2 Subject: Invalidation Date & Time: 05/24/90 17:21:59 Message Number 5028 > ---A crosseyed DM %) =========== From: TURTLE To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Griffin dormant Date & Time: 05/24/90 17:23:58 Message Number 5029 >Why are most of my friends WEIRD? Poetic justice. =========== From: TURTLE To: YNGLING Subject: Puzzles... Date & Time: 05/24/90 17:30:46 Message Number 5030 Hard to say...but presumably a sin remains a sin even after it has become obsolete. (It's the intent that counts, you see...) I'll have to have my lawyer check it out. --An irreverent Turtle =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Denny Date & Time: 05/24/90 17:35:40 Message Number 5031 No destruction? Pity. The Scorpions visited a Hardee's in Cape Coral one day and pretty much levelled the place; I was pissed about missing THAT one for weeks. Oh well...so DID you just get married?? =========== From: THRUD To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: telix Date & Time: 05/24/90 20:53:35 Message Number 5032 Exactly right ! I downloaded telix with 2400 preset for all numbers in the directory, edited one out, put AR in, and never changed the baud rate. telix is miles better than the term that came with my modem thanxxxxxx, Thruddddddddd =========== From: THRUD To: DONTHEN Subject: pink women Date & Time: 05/24/90 21:02:08 Message Number 5033 Oh, you must mean the new, improved Jane fonda. OK, I'll write off her excursion to North Vietnam, her picture wearing a hat with the hammer and sickle, and her regrets at not being able to watch an American fighter shot down. I suppose we all did dumb things when we were younger. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and call her a lighter shade of pink nowadays. You don't (gasp!) associate yourself with the likes of fonda and liberals do you ? I thought this was a respectable board. Back to the original question of green women - weren't all Denubian danceing girls green? Have you ever seen an ugly Denubian Dancing girl ? Incidently, I LOVED Barbarella - 'twas probly her last good role. =========== From: THRUD To: YNGLING Subject: D.T. Date & Time: 05/24/90 21:17:48 Message Number 5034 Jeez, it gives me the deetees just to think about it .... I still remember the days of "My captain, would you...." Never mind. also - are you sure Parmenides said that ? It sounds a lot like Ronald Reagan. clones, perhaps ? also - as a non-practicing Catholic - I never thought it was a sin to eat meat on Friday -that's just another one dreamed up by a bunch of old Italian men (priests) over the centuries that were pissed because they were sitting home on Friday nights and everyone else was haveing a good time. also - I like the tacos, love the beer - can't wait for this summer/a term to be done at MCC, cause I don't drink during the while schools in. A sober Thrud =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Lan vs. Mini's Date & Time: 05/24/90 21:48:06 Message Number 5035 Actually the DEC thing is both hardware and software - yea verily there art many pitfalls with haggling amongst the IC's over the ownership of many contested interrupts with mighty crashes and bellows of wounded warriors as they fall from the heights of the LAN of VMS. Moral: Add shit to a bouquet and you have a bundle of pretty shit. Also I was wondering about those "performance" numbers also. I drive the systems administrator wild with our Netware 386 system. I mail him a 1.2 meg file and it gets corrupted (and never a whisper to let you know that it screwed up). I mail several 1.2 meg files and the system dies. It's funny... it starts as a major rattling in the 386 server and ends as "Server not found" "Drive not valid" on screens throughout the plant. hehehehe.... =========== From: JONBOY To: YNGLING Subject: :) the sequel Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:00:37 Message Number 5036 Now you said you didn't believe that stuff!!!! =========== From: JONBOY To: YNGLING Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:01:50 Message Number 5037 Ever tried kicking the yike-yike (my generic term for a canine under 80 lbs) and just saying "Sorry - I'm not interested."? Really - from what you have described of your job it seems to bleed hostility into your private life. They too are just people and deserve a little better than misdirected hostility. If they persist - yell at them with gusto as there are some that *are* pushy bastards and deserve to be enlightened. =========== From: JONBOY To: SPELLWIND Subject: You Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:10:52 Message Number 5038 Get real - sometimes people believe in something but have a difficult time expressing themselves. All it takes is a jackanape like you to come along and poke fun at an easy target. You find it easy to disbelieve. I have met many like you - the emptiness inside becomes "there is nothing else besides me". Try finding something more meaningful than yourself - it won't be too hard. =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: IBMs Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:18:43 Message Number 5039 I prefer the original idea by Alan Kaye (one of my heroes) who concepted the "DynaBook" at PARC. This is where the "revolutionary" ideas came from that Apple STOLE. =========== From: JONBOY To: RUFUS Subject: abuse Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:26:14 Message Number 5040 The mags and books are FREE! Call me at work 355-9761 ext 2029 if ya want 'em =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: New Subject: Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:28:15 Message Number 5041 Why not? He makes the rules - it is the age old question of Good/Bad and why do people suffer ad nauseum. Point is - God is God and is so far above us that we simply can't relate. Speaking of can't relate. I'm really havin a hard time keepin my motivation up for this - gimme a simple subject - my life at work has been a wreck for 2 weeks now. Read Job 4 or 5 times and maybe something will bleed in. Job understood and the third "friend" almost understood and the first two and the entir community were way off base. Maybe it's like the Mormons believe - theres a special; place where all will be presented to people that didn't ever hear of the Word and allowd the chance to (dis)believe. =========== From: JONBOY To: TURTLE Subject: Reality Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:33:14 Message Number 5042 'Tis true... I happen to have had things happen which I consider proof. 'Course these things also can be subjective. To clarify something which looks horrible in my last message - God makes the rules... what I'm trying to say is that as you drive to work you do in several hundred (at least) bugs by walking on them driving in/on/over/thru them etc. Does this impinge on your awareness and would it alter your course of action to know this? Hell no. Problem is most humans have a terrible time trying to bring their psyches in tune with a being of this magnitude. =========== From: JONBOY To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:38:57 Message Number 5043 FUSION!!! Actually imagine that for every black hole there is a white one. Imagine eternity being ripped apart compacted spewed out into another universe only to be sucked back in repetively.... WOW! =========== From: JONBOY To: CHIP P. UNICORN Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:40:24 Message Number 5044 I'll digf it out... I can't remeber the exact title and I still have a lot of stuff in boxes... I goty it in a bookstore in Utah =========== From: JONBOY To: CORWYN OF AMBER Subject: Real dips Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:43:11 Message Number 5045 But you feel that you can stomp without any other reason than a cry of "prove it!!!"??? C'mon - be as open minded as you propose. BTW we are looking at windows 3.0 this week =========== From: JONBOY To: DONTHEN Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/24/90 22:50:02 Message Number 5046 Nahhh - sorry Donthen - I really *am* tired as hell this week and have been boogiing trying to keep from getting too far behind on the board. I undferstand all the problems that people have with Christianity. #1 - It really is a free lunch in the respect works can't buy you into heaven #2 - Just because of #1 don't get the idea that you can get away with murder - you develop an excruciating consciencve that bothers you if you are naughty. #3 - The whole story is one of faith - don't just look at one small part and say "it ain't true!". The story is 4000 years old with a very consistent "plot" and a dramatic ending. It's pretty tuff to keep a fake philosophy going that long over that many authors. And what is so bad about the message? You don't need to end it here. Believe in Jesus - who preached brotherhood and love for your fellow man and yu will live forever. So what eternal flames is the other route? As a non-believer the option is a void. What is worse? =========== From: DONTHEN To: THRUD Subject: pink women Date & Time: 05/25/90 08:39:49 Message Number 5049 Well, I've only seen ONE Denubian Dancing girl... I associate myself with liberals, Michael Dukakis not withstanding. Not necessarily with Jane Fonda; a lot of liberals are idiotic, I just think there are proportionately less idiotic liberals than idiotic conservatives. Even so, I refuse to buy the Jane Fonda = Antichrist line a lot of people have tried to hand me (on several BBS's, no less), and I've also never seen why people can't separate an artist's (i.e., writer, illustrator, actor, whatever) work from the artist's personality or politics. Even if Fonda had done most of the things she's accused of (there's evidence for about half the stories people spew, if that) and was completely unrepentant and hadn't changed her mind about anything as far as political ethics go (which she has, publicly, but people like to forget that, too), it has absolutely no relation on how well she can act. =========== From: DONTHEN To: JONBOY Subject: validation Date & Time: 05/25/90 08:52:59 Message Number 5050 > It's pretty tough to keep a fake philosophy going that long over that > many authors. It's not the philosophy that most people have problems with, it's the practice -- and, also, the central tenet that unless you believe the Supreme Being not only exists but became incarnate, was killed as a criminal, rose from the dead and in doing so, absolved everybody else of all their sins as long as they truly believe in the preceding premises, that a lot of people (myself included) have problems with. I am not comfortable with a scapegoat, divinely ordained or not. Also, of course, it could be pointed out that Wicca, Buddhism, and Shintoism all have followers today -- the total number most likely exceeding all the Christians -- and each of those theologies have been around over 4000 years, through just as many authors. If that quote above can be used to support Christianity, it can be used to support the others equally facilely. And, no, the idea of an afterlife isn't somehow "bad." It can be accused, however, of being a cosmic dog cookie: follow us and you'll be rewarded with eternal life. This is followed with the cosmic dog paddle: if you don't, you'll be punished with eternal damnation. A truly cynical analysis of a theology that effectively sold itself that way would, perhaps, conclude that it used such tactics because its teachers didn't feel it was attractive enough without a carrot/stick to "convince" people, something that The Great Cosmic Truth, one would think, wouldn't have a problem with. As someone else said on here, Christians assume all other religions are like spectacles looking at the Truth with varying degrees of optical accuracy. They dismiss the notion that Christianity itself may not be the Truth, but merely one more pair of glasses. ===========